Winning in a Midfield Car

[The Artist.....]

You probably have a little more historical knowledge than me. I personally cannot think of a single time that a driver has qualified in the top 6 (ahead of at least one of the fastest 3 cars) entirely on merit and then won the race (faster than all cars) entirely on thier own merit. Normally a gamble on wet set up, for rain to materialise and enable them to carve up the field, timely safety car (or premeditated safety car) etc.

Midfield cars only win races where circumstances skew relative performance. A good driver is necessary to win any race but if the machinery is not up to scratch and there are no acts of god it just won't happen.

Extremeninja - You're absolutely right - in general, the only way a midfield car wins is when there is something "different" about the race....

From my list - 6 of the races were wet races....

However, there are some occasions when drivers qualified cars in positions where they had no right to be - the Dallara and Minardi on the first two rows in Phoenix 1990 spring immediately to mind!

Further to this - the greatest "nearly" came in 1991 - Andrea de Cesaris in the Jordan - he was closing in rapidly on leader Senna at the Belgian grand prix, only for his car to fail in the last few laps! Had Schumacher not burnt his clutch out at the start that day, he would surely have won the race!.......

 

[FB]

Should I start a mid-field drivers who won in a top car thread or is that just asking for trouble?

 

[teabagyokel]

Should I start a mid-field drivers who won in a top car thread or is that just asking for trouble?

You can. I want an excuse to try out the Thread Moderation option!

 

[TN23]

Here are some to chew on, my knowledge is fairly limited before 1980, so I'll not have too many from before then:

1981 Monaco and Spain: Villeneuve wins in the 'red cadillac' on two of twistiest circuits
1982 Austria: de Angelis holds off Rosberg when turbos get problems
1982 Las Vegas GP: Alboreto for Tyrrell in 5th to 7th fastest car
1983 Monaco: Rosberg makes smart move on dry tyres
1983 Detroit: Alboreto for Tyrrell again
1984 Dallas: Rosberg in ill-handling Williams
1996 Monaco: Panis for Ligier from fourteenth
1998 Spa: Hill benefits from McLaren/Ferrari accidents
1999 Europe: Herbert in wild and wacky race
2003 Brazil: Fisichella in the 9th fastest Jordan
2006 Hungary: Button in slippery conditions for Honda
2008 Italy: Vettel excels in rainy weekend
2008 Japan: Alonso outperforms Raikkonen and BMW after Massa and Hamilton hit trouble
2009 Belgium: Raikkonen for Ferrari on favourite circuit

Midfield nearlies (That I can think of!)

1984 Monaco: Senna and Bellof closing on Prost when red flag comes out
1984 Detroit: Brundle can't pass Piquet when Charlie Whiting (Mr Safety) runs on track to celebrate Piquet's win
1988 Portugal: Capelli finishes second for normally aspirated March
1988 Japan: Capelli challenges for lead until a mechanical failure
1990 USA and Monaco: Alesi pushes Senna on street circuits
1990 France: Leyton House almost score 1-2 finish
1991 Belgium: de Cesaris closing on Senna before retirement
1997 Spain: Panis uses Bridgestones to get close to Villeneuve
1997 Hungary: Hill leads until throttle problem in last laps
1998 Canada: Fisichella pushes Schumacher hard for victory
1999 Brazil: Barrichello's Stewart leads until unfortunate retirement
2008 Germany: Safety car leaves Piquet Jr. in surprise lead, Hamilton overtakes late on

Some others

1980 Argentina: Villeneuve in terrible Ferrari fights Jones for lead, Rosberg third in Fittipaldi
1984 France: Tambay fights Lauda for win
1984 Britain: Warwick and Senna unlikely figures on podium
1984 Portugal: Senna third in Toleman
1985 Germany: Fabi on pole for Toleman
1985 Australia: Ligiers second and third due to attrition
1989 Portugal: Johansson third for Onyx
1989 Australia: Martini only behind the McLarens in qualifying
1991 San Marino: Lehto third for Dallara
1991 Monaco: Modena second on grid for Tyrrell
1991 Canada: Modena second, ahead of Patrese's Williams
1994 Spain: Blundell scores Tyrrell's last podium
1997 Monaco: Barrichello second for new Stewart team
2007 Spain: Sato gets a point for Super Aguri
2007 Canada: Sato overtakes Alonso for sixth
2007 Germany: Spyker debutant Winkelhock leads after four laps
2009 Italy: Sutil held up by KERS powered Raikkonen

That's all I can think of- you might actually want to scroll down past this long list!

 

[TN23]

Extreme - i'd agree with you, but only up to a point - remember that a driver may outperform his car during qualifying as well! It's always very difficult to define a mid-field car, as it is impossible to divorce the quality of the driver with the quality of the car....

So here's the question - in 1994 was the Benetton a midfield or a front-running team? I mean, throughout the season, Schumacher qualified top 6, his team-mate qualified much lower down!

Schumacher is said to have had traction control (hidden in a crazy sequence of buttons) that his teammate did not have access to. Schumacher, the lead driver, also had, with his mechanics, developed a car so twitchy it was nigh on impossible to drive for anyone, let alone a young test driver making his debut (Verstappen), a guy with a dodgy neck (Lehto), and someone with no time to acclimatise to the car (Herbert)

 

[landogeorgelewis1]

Possibly the scene of Alonso's worst ever brain fade. He swept through the last turn flat out well after the waved double yellow flags came out and (I think, the safety car being deployed) only to slam into wreckage strewn across the track. Fisi won since he had crossed the finish line twice before the race was red flagged. Jordan had to lodge an appeal to the FIA to get the decision hence Fisi getting the trophy at Imola.

You can't blame Jordan for launching an appeal really, as t.v footage showed Fisichella been ahead of Raikkonen that race. It's just a shame that Fisichella's first ever win in F1 had to come from an appeal really, but he'll be grateful that he went onto win some races in 2005 and 2006 for Renault. . Still miss not seeing his name on the list of Drivers positions on the tele, similar to Kimi after seeing their names it feels strange. Is Fisichella still Ferrari's test and reserve driver?

 

[Incubus]

Come to think of it I'm not sure you can blame Alonso either for arriving full-speed. The three of four cars arriving before him also did so at full speed, but at different angle, thus giving them more time to dodge it/
Did you se the conditions that day? The fact they arrived full speeed would indicate they hadn't actually seen the yellow flags in time.
I'm sure Alonso had absolutely no wish to risk terminating terminating his own life...

 

[Slyboogy]

Is Fisichella still Ferrari's test and reserve driver?

I see him hanging around in the Ferrari garage from time to time so I assume so

 

[TN23]

Fisichella, Gene and Bianchi are all Ferrari reserve drivers.

 

[landogeorgelewis1]

Fisichella, Gene and Bianchi are all Ferrari reserve drivers.

Cheers mate. Also cheers Sly .

 

[Zvonimir]

This would be fun! But yet again, Alonso is running the midfield car in 2016. The results are weak!