Things ... Welcome to the Future (2018 - 2019 Silly Season)

Discussion in 'Formula One Discussion' started by Rutherford, Sep 17, 2017.

  1. Angel

    Angel Points Scorer Supporter

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    Esteban Ocon says his last chance for a drive in 2019 is Williams. It's sad really, I recall a time when drivers would fight to drive for them, now they seem to be a last resort and only just better than nothing. Fingers crossed for Ocon, I hope a deal can be done for him and I also hope Williams manage to produce a better car in 2019, though I won't hold my breath on that.
     
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  3. why would they do that? to have less points and even less money? unless they enjoy the pain what you are suggesting doesn't make any sense for McLaren. I agree that their reliance on Alonso is unusual, maybe they know that their car was so crap that without him they wouldn't even be able to keep ahead of Williams, who knows. I'm sure that there is a logical explanation.

    As for Vandoorne I'm really sorry to see him go because I think that he's a talented guy and IMHO he deserved a better chance, sadly that was all F1 had to offer him
     
  4. Clay

    Clay Test Driver

    Publius Cornelius Scipio: What I mean by that is that Alonso is getting the updates ahead of Vandoorne which isn’t unlikely, but results in differing cars.
     
  5. Clay that could well be, but I don't think that there is some external force that drives the good people of McLaren to help Alonso and undermine Vandoorne's effort, as an outisder I wonder if the reason might not be that at McLaren they know full well that Alonso won't waste a chance. In a sense Alonso is McLaren's #1 driver, and being #1 often has got some advantages including being the first one to use new parts
     
  6. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives Happy to be me again Contributor

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    My original post mentioning Vandoorne wasn't really referring to an Alonso favoured slat at McLaren, although undoubtedly there is one, more that when your F1 shot comes with a once great team in sudden decline and your team mate is a former world champion considered a great by many then I think the odds are stacked against you.

    Coming in as a rookie in a team with a good car is easier than coming in with a team who are struggling. Vandoorne just doesn't have the reference point to know what's wrong with that car and drive round it like Alonso does. I think if he'd landed in F1 in say a Force India he'd have got some good result straight off the bat and his confidence would have grown. He was always on the back foot at McLaren.

    I often wonder where he'd be if he'd not turned down that Torro Rosso drive back in 2013.

    Still I look forward to seeing him in Formula E if that piece of news is true.
     
    Clay likes this.
  7. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives Happy to be me again Contributor

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    Haas have confirmed Grosjean and Magnusen for next year.
     
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  8. Angel

    Angel Points Scorer Supporter

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    So that's just Williams and Toro Rosso to announce their drivers now then.

    Well there's Force India too but we pretty much know who they're going to announce don't we? If it's anyone other than Perez and Stroll I'll be amazed.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
  9. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives Happy to be me again Contributor

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    I was very interested to see Esteban Ocon posting old pics on Instagram of himself and Lance Stroll the other day. Lots of captions about them being 'good friends' and 'racing brothers'. Could just be a coincidence, could be emotional blackmail, or could be a knife is coming to Perez's back.
     
  10. Angel

    Angel Points Scorer Supporter

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    Hmm well Perez claims to have a signed contract for 2019, then again he hasn't said who for and we all know that sometimes they're not worth the paper they're written on.
     
  11. Il_leone

    Il_leone Champion Elect

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    To show how Ferrari or I should say Arrivabene has deliberately stitched up the drivers market - Haas have suddenly announced that they were going to retain Magnussen and Grosjean after just saying a few days ago they were going to make an announcement in Japan

    Steiner alluded to that Ocon is a talented driver but he can;t help resolve Mercedes' situation with drivers but then why the sudden u - turn in announcing at Sochi unless there was push from outside influences to do so. Okay no Ferrari at Haas but they are still Ferrari's B team in many people's eyes

    By announcing their line up they also quashed any rumours that Perez was going to join them which means Sergio is going to be at Force India for another season:rolleyes:

    Sauber - Raikkonen and Giovinazzi. The team were contracted to have at least 1 Ferrari backed driver in the driver line up and since Raikkonen was not a Ferrari backed driver then it is obvious that the other seat would be Le Clerc or Giovinazzi. Vasseur probably would consider someone like Vandoorne if he did not have one hand tied behind his back

    Raikkonen may no longer be a Ferrari driver but there is no way Sauber can afford his wages unless off course if was supplemented by Ferrari

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    Ferrari are not the only culprits Red Bull apparently now will have Kyvat with... Hartley :o as they have turned away both Vandoorne and apparently Wehrlein due to their associations with other teams

    Yes the big losers in all this are both Russell and Ocon as there is only one seat for them at Williams unless they seriously are going to field two Mercedes backed drivers
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  12. Il_leone Ferrari seem to be willing to pay other teams to take their drivers, I agree that Sauber will never be in the position to pay any money to Kimi, Mercedes doesn't. Also please consider that Ocon, though a very talented driver, has often behaved like "a Mercedes driver" while driving for another team. What he did at Montecarlo, for example, looks not great to us fans but I'm sure that it looks really really bad to any team manager. So if Mercedes really values him they should either find him a seat for next year or release him, it is obvious that no one will ever hire him (outside possibly of a Mercedes powered team) until his loyalties are wirth Mercedes, if I was the boss of say Sauber or STR I would never hire him despite the fact that he could bring some very valuable experience to the team
     
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  13. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives Happy to be me again Contributor

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    I'm not sure what Haas rehiring Magnusen and Grosjean has to do with Ferrari. Neither of them have ever been drivers associated with Ferrari and it would have been harsh on either of them to get dropped. The only driver on the market who comes close to be proven as consistent and reliable at getting results as the two they have is Ocon but if you're a team trying to establish yourself why bet on something you don't know?

    The Sauber situation I can see but let's not see Ferrari conspiracies in everything.
     
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  14. Il_leone

    Il_leone Champion Elect

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    Publius Cornelius Scipio There were suspicions about Ocon at Monaco this year but the same accusations was labelled to Sauber always moving out of the way for Ferrari's and Perez throwing away a win in Malaysia 2012

    Renault have tried to hire Ocon and Toto has always said hands off ...in fact before this happened before they offered a drive to Hulkenberg or Perez back in 2016. Now that tells me Toto puts Ocon higher than Wehrlein and would fight off anyone to keep him which leaves only one option promote Ocon for 2020 at the expense of either Bottas or Hamilton

    I have suggested he goes to Renault and says give me a 2 year contract for 2020-2021 like Alonso did and sit out 2019. They are the only team that want him.

    The sad state of F1 at the moment it seems to be either who you know and how much your wallet is over all other options so the list of drivers who don't deserve their seats

    Bottas - post summer he's a No 2 very much
    Perez - if it was not for his money those costly mistakes he's made would have got him fired
    Stroll - okay it was his Dad who bought him the seat but Williams should hang their heads in shame thinking picking him was a good investment. He was not ready for F1

    Hartley - now I am hearing because Red Bull have no more promising drivers he is going to keep his seat because Helmut does not want Mercedes drivers or Vandoorne who probably is a lot quicker than him

    Vandoorne - okay he's not outqualified Alonso but his race pace seems very poor even still
    Sirotkin - at least he did gain enough F2 experience to warrant a promotion but got no chance in that Williams
     
  15. Il_leone

    Il_leone Champion Elect

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    Haas announced the other day they were going to wait until Suzuka to confirm their line up and suddenly they 've decided to change their minds and bring it forward so what made them change their minds suddenly
     
  16. Il_leone

    Il_leone Champion Elect

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    Interesting swerve for Toro Rosso despite denying that Mick Schumacher is not considered for the seat at Toro Rosso and suddenly

    "

    Now that one of the Toro Rosso seats is filled, following the team’s decision to re-employ Daniil Kvyat, the question remains as to who will get the second one. Red Bull motorsport boss Helmut Marko did little to quell the sense that Brendon Hartley is unlikely to be kept.

    Asked whether he still had a chance, Marko said: “Brendon stays definitely to the end of the season. Let’s see what he is doing.”

    Marko added that he wanted to see what happened at the end of the European Formula Three championship, where Red Bull junior Dan Ticktum lies second to Mick Schumacher, Michael’s son, with a round to go. But even if Ticktum wins that championship, he won’t have enough FIA points to earn an F1 super-licence.

    Red Bull team boss Christian Horner added: “I don’t think Dan is ready for F1 and there is a licensing issue as well. He needs to keep developing and keep generating experience. Regarding the second seat, still open, we don’t have to be in any rush. We can see how the market unfolds.”

    An interesting twist is that while Ticktum won’t have enough points if he wins the title, Schumacher will. Could he be in a Toro Rosso next year? "

    A serious kick in the balls for Ticktum if his rival got the seat he was meant to get
     
  17. Il_leone

    Il_leone Champion Elect

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    [​IMG]Motorsport Fans‏ @FansMotorsport Sep 5
    Red Bull @redbullracing will leave F1 IF @Honda don't impress with their engines according to Dr. Helmut Marko. Is this an empty threat or should we be worried?


    Well
     
  18. The Pits

    The Pits Harumph. Again. Valued Member

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    F1 would survive without them, and the associated political bullshit that they bring.
     
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  19. The Artist.....

    The Artist..... Champion Elect

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    The problem is that Red Bull control 20% of the grid, and there aren't multi-billionaires falling over themselves to buy up former teams. However, Red Bull can't easily just walk away from the sport, because of the commercial agreements that they have signed. I can just imagine the litigation that would follow.

    However, if we got rid of Red Bull and their constant crap, then I don't think it would be a bad thing! I'd also say the same about Toto Wolff and the Mercedes team.
     
  20. Bill Boddy

    Bill Boddy Professional layabout Premium Contributor

    I wonder what would happen if Hamilton had an engine penalty and on his way up the field came across Ocon. Would Ocon kindly move aside or would he think "Screw you, there's no easy pass today even if it wrecks my race".
     
  21. Il_leone

    Il_leone Champion Elect

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    I still think Ocon would move over because nowadays drivers don;t want to get involved in championship fights rather than race for positions

    I mean that is the attitude today unless you're Max Verstappen maybe.

    I mean a few years back Schumacher in a Merc in his last race did not bother fighting Vettel in a Red Bull who was recovering because simply he had hoped his protege would go on and win the title
     

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