Things ... Welcome to the Future (2018 - 2019 Silly Season)
- Thread starter Rutherford
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- 2018 2019 f1 silly season
The real people to blame for the lack of teams and seats are the manufacturers. They ensure there own space at the top by making it politically and financially possible for anyone else to come into the sport. In their ideal world Ferrari and Merc would just like to see a grid of their own cars that they control for a lovely giant advert for their brand. So they lobby and place their own person in charge of the FIA so they can control the rules, take a bigger piece of the money so no one else can gain and push costs so high only they will be able to compete (this of course leads to pay drivers for anyone else trying to survive). Just look at all the hurdles that were thrown in front of Honda when they came back in.
Of course the same companies all have connection to media outlets and therefore pay the wages of most of the journalists that F1 fans read. What this means is they have a great outlet to spin stories about how they want the sport to be competitive and how all the problems in F1 are not their fault.
Merc complaining about the lack of avaliable seats for talent is a bit like the Tory party complaining about the lack of police officers in the UK.
Of course the same companies all have connection to media outlets and therefore pay the wages of most of the journalists that F1 fans read. What this means is they have a great outlet to spin stories about how they want the sport to be competitive and how all the problems in F1 are not their fault.
Merc complaining about the lack of avaliable seats for talent is a bit like the Tory party complaining about the lack of police officers in the UK.
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Publius Cornelius Scipio
Points Scorer
talking about the future I wonder if anyone has seen the F3 rounds at the 'Ring, in the past doing well in F3 meant having a very strong chance of an F1 seat, sadly it no longer looks that way. There are at least 2 very interesting drivers (one IMHO much more impressive than the other) but no one is even considering them, the market revolves around Lance Stroll 
Not many graduate straight from F3 to F1 in recent times without backing. FIA doesn't even give enough points for a super licence for an F3 championship. In fact Lance Stroll is the only F3 champion I can think of in the last 10 years who went straight into F1.
Ticktum and Schumacher will end up in F1 eventually just not yet.
I imagine the drivers will get more attention when it moves it's racing schedule on to the F1 weekend from next year.
Ticktum and Schumacher will end up in F1 eventually just not yet.
I imagine the drivers will get more attention when it moves it's racing schedule on to the F1 weekend from next year.
F1Brits_90
World Champion
yes I looking forward to see how he gets on in F2 next year, hopefully he keep up the hype. even if I know how people 10yrs older than me are feeling watching Giuliano Alesi Pedro Piquet Pietro Fittipaldi & obviously max Verstappen
Publius Cornelius Scipio
Points Scorer
RasputinLives Max Verstappen graduated from F3 to F1 without having won the F3 championship
Yes. Like I said I can't remember a driver without backing who graduated straight from F3 to F1. Including him makes 2 in the last decade......and the FIA changed the rules shortly after so it couldn't happen again.
Didn't Bottas skip F2 as well?
He was in GP3 and then did two years as test driver.
Publius Cornelius Scipio
Points Scorer
Mick Schumacher has the backing of Ferrari and if he wants also of Mercedes, Ticktum has the backing of Red Bull
Regarding the superlicence it's true that they changed the rules to prevent this but it's got nothing to do with drivers' ability or maturity, it's just that GP2 had lost any meaning and most teams were risking going bust.
In the past it was perfectly normal to go straight from F3 to F1, to name but a few WDCs Piquet, Prost, Mansell (if I remember correctly), M. Schumacher, Senna, Vettel (with only a few races in formula 3.5), Hakkinen
Regarding the superlicence it's true that they changed the rules to prevent this but it's got nothing to do with drivers' ability or maturity, it's just that GP2 had lost any meaning and most teams were risking going bust.
In the past it was perfectly normal to go straight from F3 to F1, to name but a few WDCs Piquet, Prost, Mansell (if I remember correctly), M. Schumacher, Senna, Vettel (with only a few races in formula 3.5), Hakkinen
Yes. In the past. Not since the 90s though. So indicating that Lance Stroll and pay drivers are the reason the F3 drivers are not getting striaght into F1 is a bit misleading. The current European F3 is actually 4th on the ladder but will become International F3 next year and replace GP3 on the F1 weekend so will become third on the ladder.
I think you might have been misinformed on this. GP2 (as it was) has the highest amount of graduates to F1 of any feeder series and was averaging two a year from even before the new rules came in. It's always ran a full grid and is affordable enough that most teams run at least one driver without a budget.
The new superlicence rules were put in place as a jerk reaction to a teenager not old enough to drive in his own country with only a handful of car races under him being put in an F1 car. Which of course turned out not to be a worry at all. It came on the back of an idea they had been playing with for a while to prevent unqualified drivers buying their way into a seat. This of course has had the after effect of increasing the number of pay drivers in junior formula as they try and earn their points.
I think you might have been misinformed on this. GP2 (as it was) has the highest amount of graduates to F1 of any feeder series and was averaging two a year from even before the new rules came in. It's always ran a full grid and is affordable enough that most teams run at least one driver without a budget.
The new superlicence rules were put in place as a jerk reaction to a teenager not old enough to drive in his own country with only a handful of car races under him being put in an F1 car. Which of course turned out not to be a worry at all. It came on the back of an idea they had been playing with for a while to prevent unqualified drivers buying their way into a seat. This of course has had the after effect of increasing the number of pay drivers in junior formula as they try and earn their points.
Publius Cornelius Scipio
Points Scorer
RasputinLives if you consider that in 2001 Kimi Raikkonen jumped from Formula Renault to F1 the importance of GP2/F2 becomes less so. Maybe I have been misinformed about GP2 maybe not, considering that one of the current team is a team that I used to do a lot of testing in the F3000 era and where I still have many friends who have repeatedly told me that it's a bit of a cul-de-sac for teams. To my knowledge GP2/F2 has been succesful, or better has been able to keep afloat, only because there were no openings in F1 for young drivers, other than that it is rather pointless
F1Brits_90
World Champion
Publius Cornelius Scipio gp2 progression is good it just for quite a while no champion made the progression
There are only 3 GP2/F2 champions ever who haven't progressed to F1. Most of the runner ups have made it too.
I've never tested with F3000 team nor do I know anyone in the business, nor am I pals with Toto Wolff. I just say what I see in front of me. I think it's silly to take drivers with relatively little experience and shove them in an F1 car. There are always exceptions to the rule (Kimi always comes up) but why have a ladder system if it's not used? I don't think any of the current European F3 drivers are ready for F1 and, in the current environment, if you put them straight into F1 it'll sink their careers. It's never been the norm to do that anyways. It happened in the 90s because there were so many seats on the grid.
I've never tested with F3000 team nor do I know anyone in the business, nor am I pals with Toto Wolff. I just say what I see in front of me. I think it's silly to take drivers with relatively little experience and shove them in an F1 car. There are always exceptions to the rule (Kimi always comes up) but why have a ladder system if it's not used? I don't think any of the current European F3 drivers are ready for F1 and, in the current environment, if you put them straight into F1 it'll sink their careers. It's never been the norm to do that anyways. It happened in the 90s because there were so many seats on the grid.
Publius Cornelius Scipio
Points Scorer
RasputinLives it used to happen much more often in the 80s, but that's not the point. In terms of driving and set up the difference between an F3 and a GP2/F2 car is marginal, whereas an F1 is a totally different beast (you just have to look at the aerodynamics of an F1 car). Whether it's good for a 20 years old driver to be fast-tracked to F1 that is an entirely different thing, I personally think that it's way too early not from the driving/racing point of view but because they risk losing touch with reality (just look at Verstappen). It is also fair to say that nowadays Mick Schumacher at 19 is relatively old for F3 but in the past at that age you would have been racing go-karts or little more, Senna graduated from F3 to F1 at 24, I think that Mauro Baldi won the European F3 championship when he was 30, when I was doing F3 there were plenty of guys who were 26 or 27 and thought that they had a chance to race in F1. Now at 26 you're way too old. If you ask me the main difference is that in the past you couldn't use a radio, now it's perfectly normal, so we had to learn how ro race and how to look after the tyres, when it was the right time to push, when it was the right time to look after the tyres, etc, nowadays the pit wall tells them what to do so in that respect it's easier. what is more difficult is to cope with the media
The reason you've said are the exact reason I'm a fan of GP2/F2 and GP3 (which is coming to an end) because it's the perfect training ground. They race on the Grand Prix weekend so they see all the media circus going on around them and get eased in gently. They race at all the same circuits. They use the same Pirelli tyres with the same drop off and they get to watch the how the real F1 drivers work.
Charles Leclerc did GP3 and F2 which equates to two year as the support act for the F1 main event which is exactly why he's hit the ground running when coming into F1. Same has happened with Gasly. Even Giovanzzi was straight on it. Someone like Magnusen who came in from 3.5 took a lot more time to get up to speed.
Charles Leclerc did GP3 and F2 which equates to two year as the support act for the F1 main event which is exactly why he's hit the ground running when coming into F1. Same has happened with Gasly. Even Giovanzzi was straight on it. Someone like Magnusen who came in from 3.5 took a lot more time to get up to speed.
Clay
Test Driver
You're naming a few examples but they can be countered with many other drivers that did have problems adapting to F1. Ericsson, Grosjean, Palmer, Chandhok, Chilton, d'Ambrosio, Di Grassi, Gutierrez, Haryanto, Kovalainen, Nakajima, Petrov, Pic, Piquet Jr., Senna, van der Garde. The main reason the drivers you mentioned hit the ground running is because they're talented. Both Giovinazzi and Leclerc needed some time to get up to speed with Ericsson.
Formula Renault 3.5 used to be much closer to F1 than GP2 technically and the series has several drivers who successfully graduated to F1 just like GP2.
Well most on your list weren't GP2 champions and not of great quality. There is an argument that some of those produced in F1 the performances they were capable of. It's a good training ground but a driver either had the potential or he doesn't. Rosberg, Hamilton, Grosjean (2nd time round), Gasly, Leclerc, Kobyashi, Buemi, Giovanzzi, Hulkenberg, Perez, Kvyat, Ocon and Bottas all went the GP2/GP3 route and hit the ground running.
I agree with you about WSR 3.5 though. That was a great series and a good learning ground and it's a shame it doesn't exist anymore.
I just think being in the F1 circus helps a driver. Publius Cornelius Scipio makes a good point about the young ages in F3 now though. I just think nearly all the European F3 fields of the last 5 years have not been mature enough to graduate straight into F1. I'd still argue that Verstappen would be a better all round driver if he'd had another year in lower formula.
I agree with you about WSR 3.5 though. That was a great series and a good learning ground and it's a shame it doesn't exist anymore.
I just think being in the F1 circus helps a driver. Publius Cornelius Scipio makes a good point about the young ages in F3 now though. I just think nearly all the European F3 fields of the last 5 years have not been mature enough to graduate straight into F1. I'd still argue that Verstappen would be a better all round driver if he'd had another year in lower formula.
Publius Cornelius Scipio
Points Scorer
IMHO the biggest problems for young drivers are (i) very few seats available in F1, (ii) F1 drivers have very long careers (even when the results are not there) and (iii) there are too many junior formulae, GP3 and F3 is just ane xample of this problem, luckily from next year they will merge. In the old days it was easy for young drivers to establish a name for themselves with F1 teams, if you were a talent spotter for a F1 team all you had to do was to go to Silverstone or Monza for an F3 race and you'd see 60 or 70 drivers racing in very similar cars without any external help. Now it's much more complex and so in a sense I understand why the big teams have junior programmes, not only they try and train what could be their future drivers but they must get to know them, what their weaknesses could be because it is very rare these days to see drivers in F3 make fundamental racing mistakes for the very simple reason that they have an engineer over the radio all the time telling him or her what to do (as you might have noticed I'm not a fan of radios)
Oh my goodness!
So it's fact, Kimi is out of Ferrari at the end of 2019 and driving for Sauber instead!!!!!
I so did not see that coming. Well him leaving Ferrari I did.
Ferrari confirm Leclerc.
At RasputinLives Told you so!
I believed, even when you didn't!
So it's fact, Kimi is out of Ferrari at the end of 2019 and driving for Sauber instead!!!!!
I so did not see that coming. Well him leaving Ferrari I did.Ferrari confirm Leclerc.
At RasputinLives Told you so!
I believed, even when you didn't!
