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Usage of the Safety Car (and its effect on 2015 Re-starts)

Discussion in 'Formula One Discussion' started by KekeTheKing, Jul 3, 2014.

  1. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives I was never cool at school. Contributor

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    KekeTheKing it won't solve the lapped runner thing at all. They'll still have to be let through only now we'll have to wait even longer for then to catch up so the leaders aren't waiting on the grid too long.
     
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  3. KekeTheKing

    KekeTheKing Banned Supporter

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    There's no way it will take longer.
     
  4. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives I was never cool at school. Contributor

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    Why not? Now they can restart it when unlapped runners are within a certain distance of the back of the train. To do a standing start the lapped runners will have to be on the back of the train as they can't risk one lapped runner coming flying down the start finish straight whilst the others are in standing start procedure. The unlapped runners will still have to keep to sector times so it seems to me it will have to take longer.

    Not to mention the added complication of communicating to each driver which grid slot they have to be in and giving them some sort of visual marker as to where it is.

    I think its an idea that comes with many complications and potentials for error. I certainly don't think its a guarantee that we'll get more green flag laps. I think we'll just be under safety car for longer and more frequently.
     
  5. KekeTheKing

    KekeTheKing Banned Supporter

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    This isn't rocket science.

    SC picks up the leader and the front-runners return to the grid. Lapped cars continue around one more time and settle in at the back. Track is tidied up faster without having the pack circulating by. SC leads them around on a formation lap. Race restarts.

    Seems simple enough to me.
     
  6. soccerman17

    soccerman17 Race Winner

    Except for the part that the cars will suffer massive overheating while waiting on the grid, tires will get cold, so on and so forth.
     
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  7. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives I was never cool at school. Contributor

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    KekeTheKing the idea (as far as I understand) is that the cars will continue around behind the safety car whilst the damage is being cleared away and then will all pull up for a standing star. It won't be a red flag situation and engines will keep running. The laps will count too. There won't be a formation lap because its not a start procedure.

    Unless I've completely missed the point here. Was first question I asked though.
     
  8. teabagyokel

    teabagyokel #bringbackmaldo Valued Member

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    I think in this, KekeTheKing has the simple improvement to the farcical situation we currently have, RasputinLives has what the FIA are actually going to do. Morons.

    EDIT: The FIA are morons, not Keke and Raspy.
     
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  9. Mephistopheles

    Mephistopheles Banned Contributor

    The problems with allowing the cars to form up on the grid immediately a safety car is used are:
    • It would no longer be a safety car situation it would be a red flag situation.
    • Under a safety car a quick thinking driver can dive into the pits and gain a well earned advantage, but this element of the race would be taken away from us.
    • The cars would have to be switched off as they could not possibly be left running whilst standing still this will necessitate engineers and equipment being allowed on the track.
    • Teams would simply change the tyres on the grid negating the need for any pitstops in the race and people like to see pitstops
    • There would have to be a warm up lap.
    • It may be that the accident takes place on the part of the track where the grid is so what then? Have a separate set of procedures for that, I don't think so as it would cause confusion..
    If they are going to bring in this standing start procedure then the cars have to keep moving until the track is ready there is just no other way of doing it..
     
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  10. KekeTheKing

    KekeTheKing Banned Supporter

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    At Monaco 2011 the cars came to a stop on the grid for quite a long time. I'll go back and watch but I don't remember any cars experiencing terminal failures because of it. At Nurburgring 2007 Hamilton kept it ticking over in the gravel trap for a couple minutes. It's not that big of a deal.

    I guess it's a moot point anyway.
     
  11. soccerman17

    soccerman17 Race Winner

    I think it might be a totally different story with the new giant power units, its a shame we have no examples with those, good work KekeTheKing
     
  12. F1Yorkshire

    F1Yorkshire Avatar for sale to the highest bidder Contributor

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    Monaco is a prime example showing why the new rules will be different. The cars were stationary on the grid but they were also being serviced by the mechanics. Ducts & brakes were being cooled, tyres kept in blankets. All the electrical & oil umbilical cords were attached to the car.

    The new safety car and restart rules want to keep the personnel away from the circuit once the race has begun.
    As for cars having difficulty finding their grid spots, they manage in the majority of times to do so after the warm up lap. The teams will have plenty of time to tell the driver which side of the grid they will be on and the safety car laps will just been an extended warm up period.

    It's quite simple really. Instead of the cars beginning to race at the safety car line once the AMG peels off into the pits they will just form up on the grid in their current order and wait for the lights. The only additional time added would be that extra 30 seconds to a minute that the grid takes to form up which they all do at the start of each race anyway.
     
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  13. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives I was never cool at school. Contributor

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    ......and the lapped drivers catching up.

    As for the grid slots. Drivers do not have the visability to see over the car to the grid markings - many ex drivers have stated this in commentary and have basically said that the drivers get a visual reference point to come back too after the formation lap. Even that doesn't work sometimes as we saw at the back of the grid at Monaco this season.

    I'm not suggesting none of them will be able to find their slots, I'm just saying drivers trying to find a grid slot they have not been in previously and are unsure of is an increased complication and I'm pretty sure we'll see people run foul of it. Which will either result in more penalties or more restarts.

    Either way I think its not been thought through.
     
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  14. chris1981

    chris1981 Points Scorer

    Wouldn't the easiest thing to do with lapped cars is to let them drop to the back. Rather than going round an extra time it would be much faster. The extra lap could be just counted on. Its all about "the show" after all...
     
  15. Bleu

    Bleu Points Scorer

    I wonder also how they will do if there are cars being multiple laps down. So at the time of SC deployment, the on-track-order is this:
    Hamilton (leader)
    Chilton (-2 laps)
    Rosberg
    Perez (-1 lap)
    Kvyat (-1 lap)
    Vettel

    When the lapped drivers are waved by, it's obviously Chilton leading that group. Let's say there are 10 unlapped cars at the time of SC being deployed. Will Chilton line up 11th and Perez 12th even though Perez is holding 11th position?
     
  16. chris1981

    chris1981 Points Scorer

    Perez and Kvyat would be ahead in the race so would take the higher grid slot. To expect Chilton to go round another time would be silly. Hence why I think just letting them drop to the back and get I order is the easiest way.
     
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  17. KekeTheKing

    KekeTheKing Banned Supporter

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    You've said repeatedly over the last week that the teams can never agree on anything. Well they all agree on this proposal. If any one team had reservations about either the procedure or their car's ability to withstand the procedure I think we would have heard about it by now.
     
  18. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives I was never cool at school. Contributor

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    The teams haven't agreed anything. Its the FIA.

    Drivers don't like it apparently

    http://www.espn.co.uk/fia/motorsport/story/164933.html
     
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  19. KekeTheKing

    KekeTheKing Banned Supporter

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    The teams unanimously ratified this regulation change that was proposed by McLaren. The FIA was brought in because they ostensibly govern the sport.

    http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/1...s-driver-concerns-over-2015-standing-restarts

    It's no surprise that many drivers don't like it. But that's not how regulations are decided upon. I have no doubt that Formula One drivers will be able to handle this additional challenge though.
     
  20. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives I was never cool at school. Contributor

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    Well I guess the teams agreed it because none of then could find a reason why disagreeing with it could gain them an advantage over their rivals.

    I still stand by the fact it hasn't been thought through KekeTheKing, as you said yourself, its not rocket science. Stop the cars, clear the track quicker and save the laps. Drivers would have a knowledge of their grid slot so their would be less errors, lapped cars could automaticly go to the back and they could just put a rule in place thst says no work done on the car on the grid.

    But their not doing that. Which means that even if I agree with the idea of standing starts (which I'm not sure I do), I won't agree with this regulation as they are implementing it in a very stupid way.

    Unless of course I have completely misunderstood the rule but having asked twice on this thread it appears I haven't.
     
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  21. KekeTheKing

    KekeTheKing Banned Supporter

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    Nobody has any idea how smoothly (or not) this procedure will play out in practice. Condemning it at this point just doesn't make sense to me on any level. If it's a complete cluster**** then they might have to do away with it. It's not like they never change things in the middle of the season anyway. :thinking:
     
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