Tony Kanaan loves reduced downforce-is Formula 1 listening?

Discussion in 'Formula One Discussion' started by marksawatsky, Dec 14, 2017.

  1. marksawatsky

    marksawatsky Points Scorer Contributor

    Tony Kanaan has driven the 2018 IndyCar with its reduced downforce and he's over the moon about it. Think anybody in Formula 1 is paying attention to this? How would a modern F1 car drive with half the downforce? What would the racing be like? Article here: Kanaan on 2018 car: 'This is what I've been missing'
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  3. gethinceri

    gethinceri Daniil Kvyat Fan. Alfa Romeo Fan. Contributor

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    F1 needs downforce from the underside of the car and not winglets and other such nonsense.
    MORE downforce with less dirty air behind.
    Or a grid full of Brabham BT46s
    Andyoak likes this.
  4. marksawatsky

    marksawatsky Points Scorer Contributor

    Yes, I've read a few places that ground effects doesn't affect a following car as much. Hopefully some smart people will get the changes done
    gethinceri likes this.
  5. Rutherford

    Rutherford Podium Finisher

    Can’t be too much longer until they changing something; it’s a discussion that’s only been going on for the last 15 years.
  6. TR

    TR Rookie

    A key part of the problem is how to regulate the aero, without become over prescriptive and killing all opportunity for differentiation and innovation.

    I have been wondering if it would be viable too simply enforce a limit on the total aerodynamic downforce generated (to be defined as the total force exerted on the track minus the vertical acceleration times the mass of the car). The aero gurus, can then still compete on trying to generate the maximal downforce at all speeds while minimizing the drag. Because the focus shifts to minimizing drag, the cars should also produce less turbulence, while being less susceptible to the negative effects of dirty air.
  7. cider_and_toast

    cider_and_toast Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex Staff Member Premium Contributor

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    Fixed that for you ;)
    Wombcat likes this.
  8. Wombcat

    Wombcat Podium Finisher

    I didn't have enough ikes for this.
    cider_and_toast likes this.
  9. Bill Boddy

    Bill Boddy Professional layabout Premium Contributor

  10. cider_and_toast

    cider_and_toast Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex Staff Member Premium Contributor

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    You have to wonder if these people are watching the same thing as the rest of us?
    teabagyokel likes this.
  11. Bill Boddy

    Bill Boddy Professional layabout Premium Contributor

    Well, Pirelli would say that wouldn't they? Yes, and they should say it much louder.

    F1 needs more grip from tyres to aid overtaking - Pirelli boss - F1 Fanatic
  12. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives Not dead Contributor

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    Formula 1 is in a funny state as its lost a lot of the things that made it so popular and relevant in the first place.

    - It is no longer pushing future technologies or being cutting edge (go to Formula E and WEC for that)

    - it can't come close to the spectacular of Le Mans or the Indy 500

    - it no longer had wheel to wheel racing whilst half a dozen other series has

    - it no longer has a grid of the best drivers in the world.

    You think as it doesn't have these things it would fade, however it used to have these things and therefore captured a market. In doing that they made a lot of money and are now run by a huge media PR company. F1 keeps itself going by commissioning and making sure articles like that of Jack Nicholas are widely circulated. For decades it's employed a business strategy of making sure there is a virtual media shut out on other motorsport series for anyone other than hardcore motorsport fans who go looking for it. That way it can keep telling you it's the ultimate in motorsport. The more times it says that the more people are likely to believe it.

    F1 lost it soul somewhat when people started to refer to it as 'the show' like it was wrestling or something.

    I really hope one day someone can bring it back to its glory (and the reduced downforce and Aero has to be the way forward) but it new owners currently want to distract us with razmataz, famous names as consultants and new logos.

    Sorry. Rant.
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2018
    Andyoak likes this.
  13. cider_and_toast

    cider_and_toast Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex Staff Member Premium Contributor

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    Sadly its never going to happen. There are no longer the individuals inside F1 who care about that aspect enough.

    Think back to before the early 80's and F1 was in the hands of men like Brabham, Cooper, Chapman, Ferrari, Tyrrell, Walker and Stanley. All of them dedicated to producing the finest racing cars they could.

    It wasn't about big business, corporations, manufacturers and 'the show'

    Since Bernie made a lot of people very rich they have no desire to go back to the old days.
    RasputinLives likes this.
  14. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives Not dead Contributor

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    You are most likely right cider_and_toast - I guess every thing sells out eventually, it's the nature of Capitalism. Ask the hippies of the 60s and the punks of the 70s.
    cider_and_toast likes this.
  15. F1Brits_90

    F1Brits_90 Race Winner

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    Im not great on techincals of the sport but how correct is Lewis on this

    The cars are getting heavier & heavier each year. that does obviously affect the braking zones. There’s various challenges in that the brakes are obviously at the limit, they’re not really developing much further than they have been the last couple of years. The technology’s kind of limited at the moment in the carbon industry. There are parts of the lighter cars, the more nimble cars that I prefer of the past: easier to overtake, easier to manoeuvre in combat. With the heavier cars it gets slower and the heavier they are they’ll just continue to get slower in that respect.
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
  16. rufus_mcdufus

    rufus_mcdufus Champion Elect

    Well I can from a Wikipedia synopsis on F1 regs, the minimum weight in 2004 set at 600kg (for the race, 605kg for qualifying), 642kg in 2013, 728kg in 2017 - that was a massive weight increase, did they include driver in that measurement?

    History of Formula One regulations - Wikipedia
  17. Bill Boddy

    Bill Boddy Professional layabout Premium Contributor

    In short rufus_mcdufus: Yes.
  18. rufus_mcdufus

    rufus_mcdufus Champion Elect

    So he's certainly correct on the increasing weight aspect. I see Lewis weighs about 68kg so taking Lewis weight as a benchmark, that was an 18kg net increase from 2013 -> 2017. From that the increase in weight was 600kg in 2004 to approx. 660kg in 2017, 10%.
    As for carbon brakes, that's the trickier one to answer!
  19. Wombcat

    Wombcat Podium Finisher

    You'll probably have to add a few kilo for the driver's clothes and helmet.

    Bit wierd though that the cars are heavier today than in 2004, you'd think that with all the carbon they would be able to get them a bit lighter (and still as safe).
  20. Bill Boddy

    Bill Boddy Professional layabout Premium Contributor

    How much do the batteries weigh?

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