Politics The Politics thread

Discussion in 'Gravel Trap' started by Jen, Jul 14, 2011.

  1. Bill Boddy

    Bill Boddy Professional layabout Premium Contributor

    The Conservative Party is so split that anything could happen.

    Currently the deal on the table is the Chequers proposal. There are reputed to be 80 Conservative MPs who are willing to vote against it. If they vote as the say they are minded to Chequers is dead.

    The alternative is Canada++. There is a large faction of Conservative MPs who are minded to vote this down and probably the DUP MPs. So that cannot get through.

    I am not sure just how it works but if there is no-one who can command a majority the Queen will become involved, it may be that she can call a general election in the case of an impasse.

    Just to make it worse the Labour Party have sworn to vote against anything that they do not like, but then they are split as well but it may be possible to get them to vote just to screw the Conservatives.

    Where is Jonathan Swift when you want him?
     
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  3. vintly

    vintly Mostly bacon Premium Contributor

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    The shitshow continues. How can it be anything other than a no deal? What a complete waste of energy, it's an abominable disgrace. Given the global problems we are facing I personally think it's a disgrace that we voted to leave the single greatest multi-cultural bloc that humanity ever created, and all the shit that follows is our own fault. Regardless of differences in outlooks on trade and immigration, the bigger issues facing humanity need coordinated responses from like-mined governments, and being outside the EU will not help with that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2018
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  4. Angel

    Angel Points Scorer Supporter

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    Donald Tusk‏Verified account @eucopresident


    From the very beginning, the EU offer has been a Canada+++ deal. Much further-reaching on trade, internal security and foreign policy cooperation. This is a true measure of respect. And this offer remains in place. #brexit


    Just seen the above on twitter, if it's true, why didn't Theresa May snap his hand off? Surely this is what they say they want isn't it?
     
  5. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives Happy to be me again Contributor

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    Because whatever deal she gets it'll be judged as wrong by a large percentage of voters and her own party. Brexit is a no win situation for her and whatever deal is achieved will spell the end of her political career. This is exactly why Borris didn't run for leader and is standing outside the circle chucking stuff in. Borris wants her to do a deal so he can rubbish it, take over as leader and then use the excuse that he did not negotiate this deal for his entire term with strongly worded promises about how he is the man to fix it.
     
  6. Hamberg

    Hamberg FOTA VIP, I've got the avatar to prove it :) Contributor

    The end.
     
  7. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives Happy to be me again Contributor

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    But the people voted for it I'm afraid so it has to happen. That's democracy in action. Yes I know the argument that some didn't know what they were voting for and that the politicians mislead people but show me an election where that isn't the case? You have to take the rough with the smooth I'm afraid.

    Driving down the M61 yesterday and saw someone had spray painted "Democracy is Fracked" in large letters on one of the bridges. I kinda like it. Can't decide if it's a reference to fracking or they are just a Battlestar Galactica fan.
     
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  8. Andyoak

    Andyoak Race Winner

    I don't understand the "we didn't know what we were voting for" argument...

    We had months of Cameron, Osbourne, the Bank of England and others banging on about our economy will be ****ed and jobs will be lost.

    52% of the people who decided to vote decided they believed Boris, Gove and Farage when they promised untold riches and no more foreigners and everyone running to buy all that stuff we stopped making 40 years ago

    Hell, they didn't buy the stuff we made when we did make stuff... Because we didn't make it very well!!!

    Did nobody listen to their mothers?

    If it's too good to be true it's a lie.

    52% of the people who could be arsed to walk down the road to their voting station voted for a lie because they chose to believe it. They cannot claim they were lied to anymore than any other time.
     
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  9. cider_and_toast

    cider_and_toast Everything in moderation Staff Member Premium Contributor

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    May doesn't give a poop about free trade on goods outside of a pseudo customs union because its the service economy that she's worried about.

    Since we established ourselves as the money laund..... er I mean financial capital of Europe, trade in goods has been a distant second in importance.

    As we know, we are net importers of goods between ourselves and the EU but when it comes to financial services we control a big percentage of EU trade.

    That's what the EU want to do a deal on.
     
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  10. Titch

    Titch Smile Premium Contributor

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    I’ve had an extremely shit, stressful day. Those who can help us do their best, but they are stretched to the thin end of the wedge. They are kind, good people working really hard within the NHS, but ultimately I’m left tired and fielding the situation by myself. It wouldn’t have been like this in the past. Will Brexit take us back to that time? Would staying in the EU have moved us back into an NHS which could cope like it once did?
    Austerity has impacted us in shocking ways. Roads with holes, an NHS that tries to cope, but can’t. Youngsters who can’t get a home of their own, and I’m talking about renting as well as buying. Food banks used by people with jobs.
    Are we in this position because we are/were in the EU ? Will it get better outside ? Or will it get so bad I pack myself and other half in the car and drive over a cliff.
     
  11. cider_and_toast

    cider_and_toast Everything in moderation Staff Member Premium Contributor

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    Flipping heck Titch no matter how bad it gets, there's no need to ruin a perfectly good car.

    Seriously though, don't talk like that. There's always something good and positive out there. Just make it happen.
     
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  12. Angel

    Angel Points Scorer Supporter

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    When it came to the vote, both sides lied. They each exaggerated their side and we the voters had to decide who we believed, but we did decide and they can't keep saying they need to run the vote again because of this or that. They said time and time again that no matter the result there would be no second vote, because they didn't get the result they wanted some of them want a second bite of the cherry now and to me that's wrong. As others have said, if that went the remain way on a second vote that's 1-1, do we go for a third decider vote or penalites in that situation?

    Titch, sorry you have had a tough time and feel so down. Theresa May reckons austerity is coming to an end and things will get better. No, I'm not sure I believe her either, but it would be nice to think it's true.

    Whatever happens we have to get on with it and make the best of it, what else can we do? All we need now is to know what the hell we are doing, all this not knowing and back and forth is the thing that is really holding us back right now I reckon.
     
  13. Dartman

    Dartman Points Scorer

    They've never run a general election a couple of years later just because the losers didn't like the outcome of the first.
     
  14. Titch

    Titch Smile Premium Contributor

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    If you go for a second vote on Brexit, then you really can’t deny Nicola Sturgeon a second independence vote. I mean if its alright to keep voting on Brexit until you get the answer you want, then it must be alright for Nicola as well.
    So I don’t see Theresa May giving in on another Brexit vote.
     
  15. Hamberg

    Hamberg FOTA VIP, I've got the avatar to prove it :) Contributor

    I don’t think anyone is talking about a straight replica of the first vote. The second vote is about voting for the deal now facts are available.

    A vote based on lies doesn’t sound very democratic to me. It couldn’t have been further from an informed choice.

    Cameron at least delivered on election promises.
     
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  16. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives Happy to be me again Contributor

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    A vote based on lies. That sums up most elections in the 21st century.
     
  17. The Pits

    The Pits Harumph. Again. Valued Member

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    The vote in my humble opinion was based on emotion, and allegiance, as i believe many are.

    The biggest issue for me stems from before the second last election, where to appease potential key voters, Cameron put the referendum in the manifesto. At this point, the die was cast. Spineless, directionless, meaningless populist politics. A roll of the dice to cling to power.

    Twat

    The referendum was published, with the wrong question, and the wrong context and framing.

    The campaign was a **** up from both sides from start to finish and has served to do nothing but divide the country along idealistic lines, which both sides seem only to want to drive a bigger wedge into. The overwhelming sense that i see if that those who voted remain see themselves as right, and those who voted to leave are all stupid and gullible.

    This has been further exacerbated by the utter shit show that has been sent to Brussels to negotiate on our behalf. A more inept, rudderless clueless bunch I have not seen outside Dads Army. The process was doomed to failure. The other side of the house does little to assuage my fears that the country has been left in the hands of Jim Hensons finest.

    So yes, a vote on the final deal for me would be welcome.

    As would a political party who can actually be trusted to run the country, which I think based on what i see is unlikely to happen anytime soon.
     
  18. Hamberg

    Hamberg FOTA VIP, I've got the avatar to prove it :) Contributor

    I’ve always liked David Miliband or Ken Clarke as having a genuine ethical element. I loved Cameron’s big society idea but the self entitled shat all over that.
    He’s not perfect but D.Miliband to me is the best next PM.
     
  19. Angel

    Angel Points Scorer Supporter

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    Cameron was an all out gambler, he said what he thought people wanted to hear and then played the odds. He did it with the Scottish vote and he did with the Brexit one too. He assumed he was going to sway public opinion to his way of thinking and keep on winning. His tactic worked in Scotland, but when it came to Brexit his luck ran out, that's why he quit so soon afterwards.
     
  20. Hamberg

    Hamberg FOTA VIP, I've got the avatar to prove it :) Contributor

    He still delivered on election promises
     
  21. The Pits

    The Pits Harumph. Again. Valued Member

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    He did once, and it was the wrong promise.
     
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