The Future Of F1

Discussion in 'Formula One Discussion' started by Greenlantern101, Apr 6, 2018.

  1. Andyoak

    Andyoak Race Winner

    Ok, Izumi, you've drawn me in...

    I cannot think of anyone on this forum who supports special deals, compensation, voice at the table for any team; be they Ferrari, Mercedes, Williams, Red Bull, anyone.

    Your view of the financial relationship between the teams and CVC / Liberty just highlights the failures in the current Concorde agreement. However, it is a distraction from the core problem of the teams having a voice on the rules.

    The problem has always stemmed from the incredibly close relationship between Max and Bernie. Marketing was allowed to dictate/influence the rules... They should always have been seperated.

    Marketing capitulate to the big spending teams because they need the cash to pay their debts. That capitulation gave them a voice on the rules because Bernie couldn't give them any better reward. It won't change with Liberty because the debt is still there.

    Personally, I don't think there's a way out.

    Ken Tyrell was right.

    F1 has destroyed itself... and we are watching it's death throws.
    cider_and_toast likes this.
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  3. cider_and_toast

    cider_and_toast Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex Staff Member Premium Contributor

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    There is but it's the nuclear option.

    After 2021 pull down the whole lot and start again from scratch. It will never happen though.
    Angel and Andyoak like this.
  4. Ruslan

    Ruslan Points Scorer

    F1 has never been pure. Before there was Ecclestone and Mosley, there was Balestre. I used to think that Balestre was the worse guy in F1....then Mosley took over FIA.

    As far as I can tell, F1 has always had problems. For example: dominated by a single manufacturer in its first two years....and then they withdrew, and there was not enough they ran the 1952 and 1953 seasons with F2 cars !!!). And there have been many, many, problems since then. Yet the sport had ascended to nose-bleeding heights financially, as it is a major international sport. So, they will probably survive no matter what, but they do need to change and improve. By the nature of the beast, those changes will be incremental. Hopefully, we are now on the path of improvement, because we have been on the wrong path for the last 20 years.
  5. Angel

    Angel Happy to be here. Contributor

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    Money ruins sport, it's something you see in a lot of, if not all, sports. Add in money and then sport becomes secondary to making money and the love of the sport goes out of the window to some degree. I understand you can't run a sport like F1 without vast sums of money being involved, obviously, but money does dominate it in ways which haven't helped it.

    A lot of people play sport because they just love it, they also love to feel part of something and they just enjoy taking part or even just watching it. Once money gets involved it stops being a sport and becomes a business venture which inevitably takes something away from it in my view. The teams, the drivers, the circuit owners and so on are all worried about making money out of it now. The rules are designed to make profit for one side or another, it stopped being about the love of racing a long time ago and that is a real shame.

    Will a budget cap help? I'd like to think so. Will a budget cap be enforceable? Sadly I doubt it, after all it didn't work last time. We all know that the teams will exploit any kind of loophole they can find or else they'll hide costs one way or another. I'd love the sport to be that, a sport, I'd love for smaller teams to come in and stand a chance of winning. Just look at the odds in the You Bet game, only five drivers at any given race are realistically going to win according to the bookies and that is a real shame.

    Are we ever likely to see a time when a small team like Jordan can win a race? It was amazing when it happened, it gladdened many a heart to see the smaller team take on the big boys and win. That is never going to happen the way F1 is today, well not unless there is a catastrophic crash that puts out the top three teams, for me that is really sad too. Gone are the days when a privateer who loves the sport can come in and put in a team that people can admire and cheer for, that actually might last one full season, let alone become a regular in the sport. No longer can a driver who wins big and loves the sport so much wants to set up a team do that, not without major backing from some huge corporations who are there to make money out of it one way or another, not just because they love the sport and have racing in their blood.

    Can F1 go back to that kind of situation? I doubt it. Too many people have their fingers in the pie and wouldn't want that.

    In effect what I would like is what cider_and_toast suggested, a clean sheet of paper, a fresh start, but he's right, it won't happen, if only eh?
  6. F1Brits_90

    F1Brits_90 Race Winner

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    i know some are against spec series i dont want a full spec series. but how many of us watch it for technology. for me it's good but i also want great drama & ive said for many years if F1 was more like F2. then we would have much happier fans

  7. Izumi

    Izumi Points Scorer

    Wolff was quoted somewhere, that next generation of PU, will contain massive increase in electrification. Makes one wonder if in the future F1 and FE will converge, despite all denials there is no such plan (yet). It is also becoming apparent for anyone looking to see cars with V12 engine, they you have to search for some other series. That is not where F1 is heading right now.
  8. F1Brits_90

    F1Brits_90 Race Winner

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    without taking this in another direction I saw this on web browsing. & goes along the point of terrestrial tv in uk, we had before & is it too harsh to say, that in this fast paced moving media climate. you need to be free to air to matter. as cricket are finding out just a shame F1 have decided to make the exact same mistakes

    Cricket World Cup final could yet be shown on free-to-air platform
  9. Bill Boddy

    Bill Boddy Professional layabout Premium Contributor

    Does cricket still exist?:whistle:
  10. F1Brits_90

    F1Brits_90 Race Winner

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    to most of the public probally not since 2005
    Bill Boddy likes this.
  11. Ruslan

    Ruslan Points Scorer

    Well, the world championship was run with Formula 2 cars for two back?

    Technology is only good if each team can do something different and interesting with it. Having everyone with the same high-tech engines means nothing. Having them with different engines, with different designs, different configurations, different that is interesting. So I don't want F1 to be a spec series or a spec-like series. But, having high tech is not interesting if they cannot manipulate it. It is the competition that makes it interesting.
  12. F1Brits_90

    F1Brits_90 Race Winner

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    that is a great point because this last 10yrs. very few are saying what a great car Adrian newey built or what brilliant job Mercedes power unit division did. its oh no not more domination can some please challenge them
  13. Ruslan

    Ruslan Points Scorer

    Carey confident that budget cap will work -

    Highlights are:
    1. Test run in 2020.
    2. Official introduction in 2021.
    3. Apparently Ferrari still retains its veto power over the rules.
  14. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives Not dead Contributor

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    Always the good backbone of a fair competitive sport that - one of the main competitors being able to veto rules.

    Sorry I wasn't able to find the sarcastic font.
    Angel likes this.
  15. Ruslan

    Ruslan Points Scorer

    Well, suspect Carey had to do some wheeling and dealing and compromising to get the rule package through. If you notice the only people you hear any complaining from about 2021 is Red Bull. He clearly worked out some compromise deal with Mercedes and Ferarri.
  16. Bill Boddy

    Bill Boddy Professional layabout Premium Contributor

    So that's why they do so well.
  17. Izumi

    Izumi Points Scorer

    This plan doesn't make much sense, does it?
  18. Ruslan

    Ruslan Points Scorer

    Makes perfect sense. If you are going to implement it, helps to do a test run first.
  19. Ruslan

    Ruslan Points Scorer

    A little more on the budget cap:

    The things that caught my eye:
    1. I gather teams like McLaren and Renault are spending at a level that the budget cap with not affect them.
    a. Does the budget cap only initially affect Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull?
    b. Renault may increase its budget.
    2. "The top teams will not have hundreds of people and hundreds of million of dollars more than us, but there will not be an overnight change in 2021. But it could be the beginning of the teams aligning." added Brown.
    3. "...a team like Mercedes will need to get rid of a few hundred people..." said Brown.
  20. Ruslan

    Ruslan Points Scorer

    Well.....I don't particularly like that but blame Bernie and Max for it. You can hardly expect Carey to fix all the problems at one time that those two guys created. It will take a little time. In all reality, this was probably one of the concessions they had to make to Ferrari to get them to agree to the budget cap.
  21. Izumi

    Izumi Points Scorer

    Next year will yield false data. Real changes on the car, and impact of budgetary restrains will only occur in 2021 in any substantive manner. Teams simply will built 2020 car asap this year, and spend money they need right now.

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