The Future Of F1

[Ruslan]

Sacrilege act, desecration of values of this unique sport, dubious competence to manage technology series. What else is there to be said?

Budget cap was needed and should have been put into place a long time ago. We have seen the results of the unlimited budgets. Most of the major sporting series in the U.S. have them to a lesser or greater extent. Otherwise, it turns into a "buy a championship" exercise, which is hardly sporting.

Otherwise we are permanently stuck in that "golden age" where Ferrari won the championship five/six times in a row, Red Bull won it four times in a row, and Mercedes now wins it seven times in a row. Sort of have to break that cycle. Do you have a concrete recommendation otherwise on how to actually break that cycle?

 

[Izumi]

Yes I do have concrete recommendations. Thank you for asking.

• Before you are writing medical prescription, try please to diagnose disease first, so you know how to cure it. I am not convinced they have done it at all. If they did, I am yet to read about it.
• Change technical specifications for a simpler, and therefore less expensive car.
• Remove restrictions such as parc ferme, on testing, mount decent tire, stop saving engines, use as much fuel as you want, etc. Finding and developing alternatives to sidestep restriction after restriction cost teams fortunes.
• Do not get involved in areas which are none of your business, and which you don't understand, such as team's private budgets.
• There are tonnes of other issues which were rather created by commercial owner and FiA (not teams), which remain unattended.

175 budget (whatever currency that is) is poor substitute for inept internal bad management in teams on tail off the grid. (I could name at least two).

...etc.

Anyhoo, I find myself increasingly drawn to the idea if Sebastian will leave, and hold the door for me, as I might follow right behind him. It's not fun anymore, and after 45 years with the sport, it had to end one day.

 

[RasputinLives]

Nearly every sport the size of F1 has a budget cap. It's nothing new. I don't know why people think F1 is exempt.

 

[Izumi]

You have to do your homework first to understand differences between F1 and rest of it. Because "every other sport" has budget, forgive me, but that's not only irrelevant, but extremely poor rationale for introducing budget in this series. There is only one F1, to start with. Unique, elegant, secretive, too distant and too high to be touched by mere mortals, with doors open only to invited.

It comes down to correct definition of the problem you are trying to solve. I do remain unconvinced that Liberty has done full due diligence on this.

 

[Greenlantern101]

Excellent news. Hopefully the cap will be lowered over time allowing smaller teams back in the sport to compete with major car manufacturers, just as it used to be. Before it went silly.

 

[F1Brits_90]

for me im hugely in favour of a budget cap, because the F1 teams need saving from themselves. they would rather kill the sport than give up any advantage. ive said for a long while that budgets don't need tweaking they need halving at the very least id make a case for 60/65% cut. just found a old post from 2017 where I said "I did some research if you combine constructors top 3 budgets. you will get around to a billion dollars just for 20 races. that comes to around 10m dollars per session, thats before you talk about the other 7 teams budget like haas who have spent $120m to finished 7th in constructors"

a billion dollars by the top 3 teams for 1 season, you cannot seriously tell me that this is not a serious problem. Williams spent £150m to finish last. im sure I read that Williams had a lower budget in the 92 - 96 period than force india have. when teams start racing instead of surviving. then we go back to picking drivers on talent instead of funding & we get better teams, in turn a better strength of a grid hopefully in turn better racing, im not demonising pay drivers they will always have place in F1 we've had numerous pay drivers that turned into world champions. but in late 90's & early 00's vast majority were a nice bonus. now they are a necessity.

I recently listened to massa interview on F1 podcast. massa wanted to carry on last season & was badgering the Williams management from Italy/Singapore saying I think im driving great. I love to sign for 2018. after few months of silence & basically saying if you don't respond I will announce my (2nd) retirement in brazil. finally post mexico they contacted him & basically said we would love you to stay, but we have to sign who turned out to be Sorokin, as we need the money & if we don't they might not be a Williams on the grid in 2018

Izumi of course you want F1 to be aspirational & not cheapened. but F1 has for a decade had huge finalincal problems. but they keep ignoring the warning signs of Sauber, Lotus (Enstone), Force India, Williams, Caterham, Manor/Marussia, who are folded or came dangerously close to folding. F1 teams need to stop being selfish, need to start being turkey voting for Christmas because if they dont their might not be any turkeys left to vote

 

[Ruslan]

Excellent news. Hopefully the cap will be lowered over time allowing smaller teams back in the sport to compete with major car manufacturers, just as it used to be. Before it went silly.

Well, I gather from Ross Brawn's comments that over time, they would try to tighten the budget cap. I am guessing that probably won't happen for another 4 or 5 years, but by its nature inflation will slowly shrink it a couple of percent a year.

 

[Ruslan]

Yes I do have concrete recommendations. Thank you for asking.

• Before you are writing medical prescription, try please to diagnose disease first, so you know how to cure it. I am not convinced they have done it at all. If they did, I am yet to read about it.
• Change technical specifications for a simpler, and therefore less expensive car.
• Remove restrictions such as parc ferme, on testing, mount decent tire, stop saving engines, use as much fuel as you want, etc. Finding and developing alternatives to sidestep restriction after restriction cost teams fortunes.
• Do not get involved in areas which are none of your business, and which you don't understand, such as team's private budgets.
• There are tonnes of other issues which were rather created by commercial owner and FiA (not teams), which remain unattended.

175 budget (whatever currency that is) is poor substitute for inept internal bad management in teams on tail off the grid. (I could name at least two).

...etc.

Anyhoo, I find myself increasingly drawn to the idea if Sebastian will leave, and hold the door for me, as I might follow right behind him. It's not fun anymore, and after 45 years with the sport, it had to end one day.

How does this keep Ferrari/Red Bull/Mercedes from buying a championship?

 

[RasputinLives]

You have to do your homework first to understand differences between F1 and rest of it.

You once asked (in another thread) "why do all my posts get misinterpreted?" - well quite purely and simply this. You make the assumption because people do not reach the same conclusion as you that they obviously do not know the subject matter. It never occurs to you that as nearly everything is subjective they may have reached a different conclusion to you.

I haven't yet concluded whether you are simply arrogant, naive of social situations or doing it on purpose.

In future if I wish to add something into a discussion that you are involved in I'll message Publius Cornelius Scipio and ask him to post it.

 

[Bill Boddy]

If ypu want to see the results of unlimited spending just look at the English Premier Football League.

Two years ago Leicester won it, the first win by a non-cabal team for I do not know how many years. Look at which teams were in the European competitions, Manchester United, Manchester City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham Hotspur. It's a closed shop, they have money which allows them to get more mony from Europe which allows them to get more miney in the English matches, which allows them to.....

In a fair world all the teams in F1 would have an equal chance, when some teams are able to spend twice as much as others then there is no chance.

 

[F1Brits_90]

yes Bill Boddy that Leicester victory wasnt on merit. it was a perfect storm were they hot a purple patch & all the usual contenders were having a off season

 

[Greenlantern101]

I haven't yet concluded whether you are simply arrogant, naive of social situations or doing it on purpose.

It's the last one. Trust me.

 

[cider_and_toast]

Mod Chat.

Please keep on topic and leave the personal insults out.

Thanks.

CaT the Mod.

 

[Izumi]

Izumi of course you want F1 to be aspirational & not cheapened. but F1 has for a decade had huge finalincal problems. but they keep ignoring the warning signs of Sauber, Lotus (Enstone), Force India, Williams, Caterham, Manor/Marussia, who are folded or came dangerously close to folding. F1 teams need to stop being selfish, need to start being turkey voting for Christmas because if they dont their might not be any turkeys left to vote

There are some doubts on my part that Mercedes or Ferrari want to see headlines on Monday how Marussia whipped the floor with them on Sunday. Basic questions to ask are i) why automakers are in this sport, and ii) who are their competitors. Is this business, or sport? I think it is, unfortunately, in this era, heavilly skewed to business side. Fans perhaps honestly believe that F1 is a sport of equals (just spend the same), whereas fans like me, very much doubt it. I am sorry if this sounds harsh, but that's mere admission how I see it without any claims about absolutes. Not to develop this issue in here into a 500 pages dissertation work, I think toothpaste is out of the tube, we cannot turn clock back, but 175M budget (so vaguely defined on content) with tonnes of restrictions and even more standardization is not going to achieve racing equality IMHO. Specifications need to take care of it. This "budget" thingy is just a mask to keep external world happy that "something is happening". Action without substance is my first impression. If they want cheap operations, build a cheap car. That's so simple.

F1 will continue to be constituted by two groups (Ferrari, Mercedes, RBR, Renault) and the others. I fear morning after it has been realized that current plan failed, they will go even further, and series basically will follow the same route series in US adopted.

Commercial owners should admit and accept, if Tier 2 group wants to continue, they will need second and independent financial scheme just for them, and let them race to fill head count, instead having mere 8 cars on the grid. Problem is, Torger Wolff knows what would then happen, and he is staunchly against it (admitting existence of Tier 2 group). Anyway, this is just a chat at the water-cooler, nothing serious. Cheers.

 

[F1Brits_90]

Izumi of course they wouldn't like to be beaten by anyone & this is business advertisement for them. but im sure that neither Ferrari red bull Mclaren & Renault are partically happy. but if we can try to make it better because the budgets are only going 1 way. we need to rescue the sport. because worst case scenario because if Renault hadn't saved Enstone, Alfa saved Sauber, Stroll saved Force India, the Williams folded due to finances that's 12 cars on the grid. what Red Bull decide that marketing has done its job. that's F1 with 8 cars Ferrari Mercedes Haas & McLaren. very few with the £150m a season to compete

as we always say there is rarely any malice or grudges held here. as was proof in Canada all about arguing the point not the person

 

[Izumi]

I am not privy why automakers are unhappy, but my first guess would be, that rules continuously since 2013 are heavilly skewed in favor of Mercedes, whilst others, through various underhanded schemes interjected in as "rules", are prevented timely and complete recovery, so they can compete on the same level. There is no equal playing field even with teams with money to burn.

 

[cider_and_toast]

The teams should have no say in the rules end of fact.

No team should have a veto, no team should be consulted, no team should be allowed to moan until rules are changed because they aren't competing. The rules should be simple and easy to follow.

For too long the tail has been wagging the dog. The FIA should be the single source of the rules. The commercial rights holder the single source of the presentation and the teams just left to get on and race.

 

[Bill Boddy]

I would not mind losing Mercedes in the least if it meant that it new teams could afford to come in with a chance of staying.

 

[Izumi]

Mercedes was ready to leave several years ago, but then commercial holder instead letting it pass, he made series of promises to them. The same with Ferrari. Today we see it as wrong? Why so late?

Had CVC said in straightforward manner during last negotiations, as stated on this forum, you - teams - give us a lot of your money, you have nothing to say, we spend it any way we want, and you get almost nothing back, and in fact, we keep rules heavily skewed towards British teams, at least teams would have clarity on decision to stay, or leave. That however didn't happened, and today F1 needs to sort it out. I just do not believe in their (Liberty, FiA) chosen approach.

 

[cider_and_toast]

Today we see it as wrong? Why so late?

Because generally, nobody complains when their team is the one doing all the winning.