The Future Of F1

Discussion in 'Formula One Discussion' started by Greenlantern101, Apr 6, 2018.

  1. Ruslan

    Ruslan Points Scorer

    Hamilton just made three rule proposals:

    1. Switch to normally aspirated V-12 engines
    2. Go back to manual gearboxes
    3. Get rid of power steering.

    These last two I support. I favor outlawing any driver aids, requiring all interface between the driver and the car to be mechanical. The first one I am not sure about. I would actually like to see more engine options available, including V-12s, but there are some valid reasons why F1 is racing hybrids. If F1 is going to stay the premier race series, it will have to race a relevant engine (with Formula E lurking in the background).
    rufus_mcdufus and Andyoak like this.
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  3. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives Not dead Contributor

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    I've advocated a free for all on engine regs for quite a while now because it creates different performance and strategy which of course leads to more interesting racing.

    You mention Formula E and there is a great example of it over in that formula at the moment. There is a rule regarding how much power a car can put out but no the method of producing it. This has lead to different approaches. Nissan differ from the rest of the teams by having a twin motor in their car. This means their car is heavier but can get on the power far quicker. It's quite noticeable that they are quicker than everyone off the line and out of the corners but start to bog down as everyone else gets up to speed. It also means they have to be more careful on power management. It has led to some interesting racing.

    I guess the point I'm making is that I think F1 limits itself too much on some regs and not on others. Limited the aero, reduce restrictions on engine regs. Boom.
  4. Ruslan

    Ruslan Points Scorer

    I remember the days when F1 had V-8s, V-12s and turbo inline 4s all racing side-by-side. The cars all behaved differently and they had advantages and disadvantages at different tracks. Which track they were on actually mattered...a lot.

    Agree entirely, with the caveat that it needs to be under a budget cap.

    I have considered for a while whether F1 should use an engine equivalency formula, like sports cars series often do, to encourage the use of multiple configurations and types of engines. Now, there were always problems with that.....but I would rather see multiple engine types and have them deal with the regulatory issues as opposed to running what is becoming a glorified spec series. Not exactly sure how you work that with the current three-engine engines....but I am sure there is a way to balance it with other engines types.
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
  5. Bill Boddy

    Bill Boddy Professional layabout Premium Contributor

    I enjoy going to the circuit on Friday and seeing a variety of differing series. Remove Friday and one or more of these is likely do disappear which would be a shame. What we could do with is an increase in the number of series on view including some sports cars.
  6. Ruslan

    Ruslan Points Scorer

    Well, I don't think that what they will be doing will have an impact on that. I gather they are getting rid of the Thursday press conference and the Friday morning practice. So, effectively shortening the race weekend by getting rid of Thursday. It is not an earthshaking change.
  7. Izumi

    Izumi Points Scorer

    Mercedes boss not in favour of proposed parc ferme rule
    Great men think alike..?

    His reasoning sheds light on how inadequately FiA and Liberty analyzed impact of imposed (arbitrarily established limits on) budget. Buget is a step backwards, just as parc ferme is.
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
  8. Izumi

    Izumi Points Scorer

    Abiteboul slams $175m budget cap figure

    Looks like there is more of us who do think Liberty is dead wrong.

    Budget excludes: travel, promotions, driver, and engine.

    Outspoken 1997 world champion Jacques Villeneuve told Italy's Automoto that the 2021 rules are going in "the opposite direction" compared to what F1 really needs.
    "Total stupidity," the Canadian said when asked about the draft 2021 rules which are being talked about in the Montreal paddock.
    Yes Jacques, some of us are with you on the same page.
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
  9. Bill Boddy

    Bill Boddy Professional layabout Premium Contributor

    Yesterday I watched the practice sessions with video from n-tv and commentary on 5 Live. at the end of FP2 the commentators were saying that it had been an extremely interesting session with plenty of interest. I agreed, it was better than the every race that I have seen this year.

    Why was this? Could it be because the teams were on the closest together for heaven knows how many years - the top ten drivers were within 1 second of the leader, the next seven drivers were within 1.421 seconds.

    Do not do away with FP1 and FP2, get the racing closer by having simpler wings, what were those Newey winglets doing there? And yes, I do mean viciously trim the wings and make engines which cost less than the GDP of the Falkland Islands.
  10. Ruslan

    Ruslan Points Scorer

    Well, a budget cap has never been done before in Formula by definition it can't be a step backwards. Going to naturally aspirated V-8s would be a step backwards...but is a step a lot of fans would support.
  11. Ruslan

    Ruslan Points Scorer

    Thanks for this. It is the first concrete numbers I have seen on the budget cap.

    So 175 million with drivers, engines, travel and marketing cost excluded. I have to digest this for a while before I make up my mind on it. Understand why drivers and marketing costs were excluded. Not sure about travel, but I don't think I care. Engines is the big one. I do remember at one point they were talking about an increased budget cap for the teams that manufactured engines.

    Engines, of course, are the tricky part of any budget cap as there are only four engine manufacturers and 10 teams. So how does one address and control that? I did consider that they needed a separate budget cap for engines. As it is, Mercedes could spend $700 million on new engines...which may be why Abiteboul is not happy (the article does not say why he is not there an article elsewhere that provides more detail?).

    Or.....are we now in the situation where we are close to engine parity between Mercedes, Ferrari, Honda and Renault and with the no new engine regulations, they think that will not be an issue?
  12. Izumi

    Izumi Points Scorer

    It would be useful to agree on definitions first. Is F1 an entertainment, business, or mix of both? Budget together with voluminous restrictions (for benefit of Williams and alike) in terms of entertainment is - in my book - step backwards.
  13. Ruslan

    Ruslan Points Scorer

    Not sure what you are trying to define and to what purpose?

    It is a sport first. That is why people started racing cars.
    Of course, if you are going to sell tickets and get people to watch, it is entertainment also.
    Finally, by default, it is a business.

    This has always been the case. But it is a sport.
  14. cider_and_toast

    cider_and_toast Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex Staff Member Premium Contributor

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    Basically it's 175 million a year to spend on aero and suspension.

    Given that a few years back some of the lower order teams were spending less than 100 million all in for cars, drivers, engine purchase, etc etc, they should fall well inside that.
  15. Ruslan

    Ruslan Points Scorer

    Well, it appears to be a compromise figure, which is fine by me. You kind of need compromise to get things done. So yea, it does not really help some of the backmarker teams and doesn't severely restrict the top teams, but it is a start. It is where they needed to be a decade or so ago. I think they can and should tighten it up the budget cap over time (and place a separate budget cap on engines).

    Overall, my sense of the changes by Liberty is that their steps have been very small and incremental. No earthshaking changes in the engines, minor tweaks to aero, minor tweaks to the schedule, minor tweaks to the weekend, a budget cap that is not overly significant, etc. It appears to be a go slow approach and maintain the endorsement/support of the majority of the teams.

    Now....I do think that F1 needs more than a few minor tweaks, but in a 100+ billion business, I can understand why they might go with a incremental approach.
    Greenlantern101 likes this.
  16. Izumi

    Izumi Points Scorer

    "I cannot prove that Mercedes got data earlier than us, but I cannot rule it out," Marko added. "We at Red Bull will look very closely at the future development of Formula 1 and there will also be discussions with Pirelli."

    Was there ever any doubt about it?

    Marko believes there might be a bias towards Mercedes
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
  17. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives Not dead Contributor

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    FIA social media staff are really on it today


    Went to the link just to see what it was and

  18. Izumi

    Izumi Points Scorer

    Looks like its now end of October before we will know how future is defined.
  19. Izumi

    Izumi Points Scorer
    La Gazzetta dello Sport said that if the big teams break the agreement, Liberty will "unilaterally" announce the 2021 rules prior to the new October deadline.
    Really? Unilaterally? After all, we are talking about entities which bring in money, not taking it out of the sport.
  20. Ruslan

    Ruslan Points Scorer

    Well, it does look like the budget cap is locked in:

    Suspect it will be a permanent fixture in F1 from now on. Once established, I suspect they will never be able to remove it. Sorry Izumi but it needed to be done. As to the value of it (which is actually pretty high), Ross Brawn says "We had to compromise for the beginning....we have a foot in the door now, and that was important.":
  21. Izumi

    Izumi Points Scorer

    Sacrilege act, desecration of values of this unique sport, dubious competence to manage technology series. What else is there to be said?
    Galahad likes this.

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