Politics The EU

Discussion in 'Gravel Trap' started by mjo, Oct 24, 2011.

  1. Izumi

    Izumi Points Scorer

    Sorry, are you reffering to this?
    Implementing and delegated acts
     
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  3. FB

    FB Not my cup of cake Valued Member

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    Yes, that is the delegated acts I was referring to. It is as "democratic" as the Trilogue which is now used to create all the dodgy Directives and Regulations in the first place.

    This means the civil servants in the EU can now grant themselves a power with some cursory oversight (The Trilogue) of the Parliament and the Member States, but no formal scrutiny. Once they have granted themselves these powers they can then amend and extend them at will with no oversight of any kind (Delegated Acts).

    But don't worry "they will only use these powers for the benefit of the citizens of the EU", until Europe ends up back in the stoneage and diseases long since thought eradicated proliferate with gay abandon as all the chemicals and medicines used to control them have been regulated out of existence "for our own good".
     
  4. Izumi

    Izumi Points Scorer

    Hmm, maybe, but I have boarded that ship already, and now all what I can, and want to do is to paddle as fast and as long as I can. It's that simple.
     
  5. FB

    FB Not my cup of cake Valued Member

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    I'm at a loss to understand your reply Izumi.

    Are you suggesting that because these rules have been passed the electorate should just accept that we no longer have any say and should simply accept them? It is this sort of attitude which has led to dictatorships in fairly recent history and then significant conflict as a consequence.

    It is not dissimilar to the Executive Powers which Donald Trump has been using to pass many unpleasant new laws in the US and I can't imagine you agree with the way that system works.
     
  6. Izumi

    Izumi Points Scorer

    What I mean is, I am part of EU, and regardless all gloomy forecasts over future of institutions I came to love and respect, my trust is in people I've voted for, They are coming back soon for short break, and I want to study that issue more before I will ask about it. Right now my trust is intact they will do what's best for us, or what's possible to move forward.

    Look, sometimes we don't get all what we want. We have 28 countries with different visions and needs, thus we are learning to work together. The incoming bunch in the front office seems far more intellectually advanced than departing crew. Not all decisions are based on logic, and there are some compromises probably involved we know nothing about. In conclusion, I do appreciate you have draw attention to it, but I am withholding my judgment over that issue, at least for now.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
  7. cider_and_toast

    cider_and_toast Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex Staff Member Premium Contributor

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    I feel to make the EU truly fair, all member states should have an equal number of MEPs.

    It's hardly correct that if the largest 3 or 4 states gang together then remaining 20 or so countries MEPs combined couldn't out vote them.

    Surely to make the voice of Europe truly one and represent all people equally, each country should have an equal say.

    Why is the voice of the people of Malta be worth any less than the people of France for example?
     
  8. FB

    FB Not my cup of cake Valued Member

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    Let me know when you get your ballot paper though to elect the President of the Commission.
     
  9. Izumi

    Izumi Points Scorer

    System is IMO fine as it is. A person I've voted for will cast her vote one way or another on my behalf. I can send her my litany over email, but why? She is a pragmatic and quietly competent person I trust, so I let her to decide how she will vote. There is over 700 other similar voices which will do the same. I know who Dr. Leyen is, since she is one of the longest serving members of German government. I am not that much certain, that everyone who can vote cares to vote, or would vote knowledgeably. Dr. Merkel actually voluntarily abstained from voting, since nominee is an old colleague in her government, and the other 27 heads of governments agreed unanimously on the nomination. As you know, nomination is only first step, and it is not guaranteed at all to pass parliamentary voting, but that's how it is works. There is preponderance of opinions all over, but at one point people whom we elected have to commence their work on our behalf.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
  10. Izumi

    Izumi Points Scorer

    They (sort off) addressed that issue as follows:

    Glossary of summaries - EUR-Lex

    I distinctly remember how on pages of this forum someone on British side complained, why large states should not be "pushed around" by smaller states, and they do need large representation to have their voice heard. So they are. Voting however splits along party lines, not nationality, so it is not homogenous block which emerges from one country. People are voted in based on party platform just like national elections. I am seriously in doubt that one person one vote (on everything important) is necessarily a good thing.
    There is a lot of good people I know who are not interested to learn about political platforms, they do not understand issues, but they do know who does, and voted for her just based on personal trust to represent us based on our needs, and wants together with some compromises needed to keep federation intact.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
  11. Dartman

    Dartman Points Scorer

    Izumi has now explained why the UK wants out, blind faith in intellectuals running an organisation with no opposition is not my idea of Utopia, a touch of common sense is required in any government, that seems to be lacking in the EU as a matter of policy. Having said that common sense seems to be lacking in the UK parliament due to personal ambitions.
    To quote a well known phrase from a well known comedy show " we are all doomed":rolleyes:
     
  12. Izumi

    Izumi Points Scorer

    Problems in UK are problems for British people to resolve. As to claims that EU is lacking common sense, you need to be specific. There is a lot of misinformation disseminated by people with special interest. I am not sure if you can find some answers in this:
    Euromyth - Wikipedia
     
  13. Brogan

    Brogan Leg end Staff Member

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    Oh the ****ing irony.
     
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  14. Dartman

    Dartman Points Scorer

    Izumi your posts over a period of time indicate that you have tunnel vision and blind faith in the EU direction and its organisation, you also seem to put Angela Merkel is a similar vein to the virgin Mary, both are worshipped and both are above criticism.
    With such views it is no longer a debate but more a re-education process very similar to Soviet and Chinese communism rhetoric, the government can do no wrong, in this case the EU led and or pushed by Germany.
     
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  15. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives Not dead Contributor

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    I'm sure this is all true until they make a decision you don't like. I mean we've all seen how you react when officials make a decision you think is unfair.
     
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  16. Izumi

    Izumi Points Scorer

    You would be surprised how often I was not in agreement with direction taken, but then, I am an adult, and I cannot have everything done as I wish. On balance +column outweighs negatives, thus I am not complaining.
     
  17. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives Not dead Contributor

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    But when you're not angry about Brexit you are angry about the perceived unfair treatement of Ferrari by the Motorsport governing body. Over the last few weeks you've spent considerable time angrily advocating that changes need to be made and that the organisation, it's members and even supporters of other teams are bias against Ferrari and colluding to hinder them. I believe you have called for changes to suit your needs and suggested the organisation would be far worse off without Ferrari's involvement and that maybe, just maybe, if the issues are not sorted that Ferrari should leave.

    Now....I don't want to use the word Irony.....however......sounds an awful lot like Brexit to me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
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  18. Izumi

    Izumi Points Scorer

    Wrong. I am actually quite indifferent regarding outcome. I think I made it clear long time ago. True, I am not impressed by anti-EU rhetoric by some people with the microphone, but that is not as much for the reason stated (we want to leave), but for all false claims and half-truths stated as justification.

    This is only half-truth. Yes, I am not impressed how this is developing, but I also included at least two links to articles what fans and Italian media think. You may have forgotten about it.

    Maybe you can lead me to a place where I said it as described. I do however recall, that I am keen to learn how Ferrari will respond in the future.
     
  19. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives Not dead Contributor

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    Izumi in an angry tirade on here you described brexit as ruining your life. But yes you are indifferent
     
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  20. gethinceri

    gethinceri Daniil Kvyat Fan. Alfa Romeo Fan. Contributor

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    I'm pleased you've just reminded me of one of my favourite jokes RasputinLives
     
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  21. Johnny Carwash

    Johnny Carwash Champion Elect Contributor

    Went through the same Passport control today in terminal 5 as my girlfriend.I used my British passport,she used her German passport.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019

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