Discussion in 'Gravel Trap' started by mjo, Oct 24, 2011.
My responsibility to find solutions.
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Some would argue birth of this mess could be traced back to Regan and Thatcher, if not sooner. Cameron just lighted a matchstick. Rather unfortunate.
Izumi I would disagree Thatcher was happy with the Common Market, she wasn't happy with the EU and it's proposed future, you can't blame her, the Germans supplied Argentina with submarines and wire guided torpedoes along with their maintenance during the Falklands conflict also with the French and their support with the Exorcet missile, you can understand her not wanting to get into bed with such wonderful friends.
I beg to disagree. We are not supposed to talk ill about people who are not anymore with us, however I recommend find and read collection of her quotes about Germany, German culture, and German people. She hated all. She hated Germans to last day of her life, she considered unification of Germany as her biggest policy mistake. I have to stop now, before it gets out of hands, and surely you do not need to ask me what I think of her.
By its very nature, Germany is a destabilizing, rather than a stabilizing, force in Europe," Thatcher wrote in her autobiography in 1993."Germany has veered between aggression and self-doubt. The true origin of German angst is the agony of self-knowledge."
Well Lady Thatcher, if you are so inclined to listen, dislike and lack of respect is mutual. She called Moscow two months before Berlin wall felt, that she is not supporting unified Germany. She had anger oozing from her eyes when Chancellor Kohl dared to take photo with her and Regan. Who is he, she asked. (Kohl was initially a mentor of Dr. Merkel.)
Right, and look today what's left of her party. Just anger, hatred, ...
Izumi, she was our PM and dragged this country from its probably its lowest in esteem and financial ruin, of course you would disagree, the rise of a unified Germany to her was a danger, a powerful Germany to her was a threat to Europe, after all a unified powerful Germany ended up causing two world wars in one century, I believe she didn't expect another war, but she was wary of its ambitions, some would say rightly so.
Duo Thatcher and Regan deregulating financial and other markets are credited in some analyses for most of misery which exists today, but maybe that's another subject for another day.
With respect to causes and origins of both wars in last century, I am only hoping that one day we learn the truth how and why it all started.
It is not my aim to attack a historical figure which means a lot for some UK citizens, however I fear that not too many people have taken time to learn historical impact she had on future of UK. 50 years after last war she had very few, if any, factual reason to sustain her hatred of Germany. She was who she was.
, half were in mourning.
found a few from that day
Well, take care guy, and hope things work out.
Thank you old friend.
Perhaps it's best not to quote history to those who have lived in it, we have a different outlook on history to those who are now taught it by those with a different agenda and also didn't live in it
Sure, there is such thing as momentum, however based on survival instincts, while some UK companies died, whereas others changed their MO, and flourished. Hard to say today whether conditions would have been different without market pressure which EU membership presented. Discussion about pro and con of that era and various convenient interpretations which in abundance we find everywhere, including market tabloids, that reading of history continues.
I am hoping this will not surprise you, but I do agree with you. While we cannot or should not avoid interpreting historical records on events now long past, not everyone can travel with his mind that far back, and fit his mind into frame of that era. The same is true when we read books like Koran, Bible, Talmud, or Republic...
Cameron for me a product of what is probably century old problem. One could go 100 years+ to look for origins of causes leading into current politics, however Thatcher and Regan with their (dergulatory) ideas I think was a new begging on that curve.
A desire for a Federal EU wouldn't exist without history.
Civilisation is a result of someone or something in history.
You cannot blame something in the past; only use it to help understand the present.
You cannot use history to predict the future (IMHO).
Separate names with a comma.