Politics The EU

Discussion in 'Gravel Trap' started by mjo, Oct 24, 2011.

  1. Titch

    Titch Smile Premium Contributor

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    She survives.

    Jacob Rees Mogg is a troublemaking, back stabbing, idiotic upperclass, plonker.
    Stand by for more vitriolic campaigning from him, and his friends.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
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  3. cider_and_toast

    cider_and_toast Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex Staff Member Premium Contributor

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    She was always going to get through. The key figures who could have moved against her don't want the keys to a building that's on fire.

    I think it was obvious at PMQs today that she'd be fine when none of the potential challengers stood up to have a pop at her.

    It's worth repeating, the current "deal" on the table, that took two years to negotiate, is we get no further say in the EU from the end of March but in every other respect nothing changes until the end of the transition period when, if we still haven't sorted anything out we enter into more or less the same situation in perpetuity. If we decide at any time during this period that negotiations are going badly and we want to opt out entirely, we can't unless the whole of the EU say we can. We can't do trade deals, we still have free movement during the transition period and still have to follow all of the EU rules and regs.

    Two years that took.

    To quote Geth yet again, It will be shit.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
  4. Titch

    Titch Smile Premium Contributor

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    I’m not in favour of the deal as it stands. I’m just not sure that destabilising Government at the moment is the way to go. The deal will not get through Parliament, but now Parliament and Government can try and work that out, instead of being distracted by a leadership battle in the Tory Party, or plunging the country into a general election. What is needed now is some proper cross party cooperation in order to get a good outcome for the country.
    It would appear that Parliament are only interested in using Brexit to better themselves, and looking out for the country is a pale distant thought.
    Also, those who would derail government are trying to overturn the results of the original referendum, because it didn’t go their way. That’s not Democracy. That’s rude. They cannot believe that they have to go with the majority vote, because they believe it’s wrong.
    These people really don’t care about what the people want, only about what they want.
     
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  5. F1Brits_90

    F1Brits_90 Race Winner

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    Teflon may survives again. But she is resilient. I give her that i lost count now you could forgiven her for resigning but she stuck at it. I might be way off here but i was thinking tories have made a dreadful mistake because we all know much British people love an underdog proven by public admiring Henman more than Murray. With the :censored: thrown at her this last week month year. & yet amazingly still prime minister

    People could start support her not the party. As she is no an underdog
     
  6. Dartman

    Dartman Points Scorer

    Perhaps Laura Kuenssberg should resign she's been forecasting Theresa May's demise ever since the last GE, time she did her job of reporting news instead of reporting her wishes, any one would think she was Rupert Murdoch in his prime:whistle:
     
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  7. cider_and_toast

    cider_and_toast Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex Staff Member Premium Contributor

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    She's the Daily Express of BBC political coverage.
     
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  8. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives Happy to be me again Contributor

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    So now I find myself agreeing with Heseltine?!?! This world is too much for me at the moment.

    Jason Hazeley on Twitter
     
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  9. cider_and_toast

    cider_and_toast Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex Staff Member Premium Contributor

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    To be fair, Tarzan, Major and Clarke may come across today as statesmanlike on this subject but they all played a role in getting us into this mess today. Their abject failure to engage back then meant that people in this country were never sold the idea of Europe.

    Many people blame them for bringing down Thatcher and bought into her anti EU views.

    You could go back further, my Dad bangs on about the Common Market and how no one said anything about rules and regulations or free movement of people. Heath covered a lot of that up but it's all there in the Treaty of Rome. Foreign Office documents released in 2002 under the 30 year rule specifically reference the fact that the Government were aware how unpopular some of the sections of the treaty of Rome would be so chose not to stress any of those sections in public.

    The EU has never been sold properly to the British people so of course it's treated with scepticism.
     
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  10. Dartman

    Dartman Points Scorer

    Politicians selling anything to the British public is viewed with suspicion, especially since Blair sold new Labour which was just old Labour with a smart suit and a Judas smile.
     
  11. cider_and_toast

    cider_and_toast Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex Staff Member Premium Contributor

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    Fixed that for you ;)
     
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  12. Brogan

    Brogan Leg end Staff Member

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  13. Dartman

    Dartman Points Scorer

    cider_and_toast, that was the impression not the fact, we ended bust as usual, I was always surprised the voters swallowed the hype, he only promised a change, which he kept, boom to bust in 10years and kept it hidden for another 3years:rolleyes:
     
  14. Greenlantern101

    Greenlantern101 Super Hero And All Round Good Guy Contributor

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    1.jpg 2.jpg 3.jpg 4.jpg 5.jpg 6.jpg 7.jpg 8.jpg 9.jpg 10.jpg
     
  15. Titch

    Titch Smile Premium Contributor

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    I do really hate Junker, did anyone else see him during the news, smooching around various women, all with long blond hair. So not only power mad, but a creep with it. Yucky Yuk Yuk.

    God help Europe with him at the helm.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
  16. FB

    FB Not my cup of cake Valued Member

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    You know I can't remember ever seeing the names of Jean-Claude Junker or Donald Tusk on any ballot I've voted in. Makes you wonder how they got their jobs. Oh that's it, they are undemocratic appointees who wield more power over our lives than any elected politician in the UK. I wonder why 52% said they wanted rid.
     
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  17. Titch

    Titch Smile Premium Contributor

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    Exactly FB. It makes me so angry, stamping mad. Unelected Eurocrats run Europe, they want to be the power and the glory, they don’t give a monkeys toss about about individual European countries, they just want power.
    Much like the political parties and government in the uk, but on a bigger scale.
    On that point, even as the country it represents is being driven to the edge of a cliff with no idea of whether we fall or survive, our government is still infighting for personal power.
    It’s time we joined the French in showing our disapproval.
     
  18. Bill Boddy

    Bill Boddy Professional layabout Premium Contributor

    They are rather constrained Titch by the fact that anything that they want to do has to go through the EU Parliament.
     
  19. cider_and_toast

    cider_and_toast Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex Staff Member Premium Contributor

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    The EU commissioners are duty bound by their oath of office to think of the whole EU and not on nationalistic lines. It would be like the civil service in this country agreeing to work for a Labour government but not a Tory one.

    Juncker was sort of elected in a round about way. His nomination was put forward as president of the EU commission and this position was ratified by a vote in the EU parliament. We elected the MEP's to represent us in that body. Yes it's three times removed from the voter but it's a sort of democratic process sort of. It's far closer to democracy than a government appointing someone to the House of Lords where they have a vote over UK politics for life and never face election.

    Tusk is appointed by EU leaders and therefore blame Cameron and the Lisbon Treaty for that one.

    No, the EU system is not great. The commission, as the civil service equivalent, has the bulk of the legislative and administrative power and is too far removed from open political governance. No one understands the effect and role played by the EU parliament because the debate is hijacked by national governments. Apart from Nigel of the Swivel Eyed Loons standing up and hurling childish insults at the EU, how often does British TV News coverage show the genuine debate that must take place in Brussels or Strasbourg regularly. We never see the equivalent of EU ministers questions for example.

    Going forward in our Brexit nightmare, of course the EU are going to put the needs of the block and the remaining 26 countries before us. They have no need to give us anything. As has been said countless times before, we are leaving their club.

    What an absolute mess and this country becomes a bigger international joke as each day goes by.
     
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  20. sobriety

    sobriety Pole Sitter

    Very well put, and far more patient than I'm currently capable of.
     
  21. FB

    FB Not my cup of cake Valued Member

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    Not really true. The Commission is the only part of the EU which can create laws. In the past these would have to go through due process and scrutiny but now the Commission has a sneaky way round this by using a system know as the "Trilogue" - Interinstitutional negotiations for the adoption of EU legislation

    Through this the Commission creates a law and then a few representatives of the Council and the Parliament are allowed to read it and suggest changes. From there the laws pass, unopposed, through all the rest of the process so there is no proper discussion at the Council of Minsters or the Parliament. This prevents either the Council or Parliament blocking some of the more absurd stuff the Commission proposes as the argument goes "it was agreed at the Trilogue how dare you oppose it".

    Once a law is passed you should note that it is almost impossible to get it changed as the Commission never makes a mistake. Take it from me, I have first hand experience of the arrogance of those involved in the EU institutions. You will also then have "guidance to the regulations" published on a fairly regular basis by each of the DG's which embellishes the original laws without any oversight from the Parliament, Member States or, frankly, anyone with a brain. Once they have published a "Q & A" it is then a defacto law and getting that decision reversed can take years as there is no serious system of review.
     
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