Politics The EU

Discussion in 'Gravel Trap' started by mjo, Oct 24, 2011.

  1. Bill Boddy

    Bill Boddy Professional layabout Premium Contributor

    The Yes/No idea was possibly the worst by any government since Lord North decided to punish the Bostonians.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to remove all adverts.
  3. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives Happy to be me again Contributor

    Featured Threads:
    55
    Dartman Although he won't say it Jeremy Corbyn is very much in favour of Brexit. He campaigned to no join the single market the first time round and certainly did not throw his weight behind the in campaign on the second go round. He'll never say it due to his demographic but I wouldn't be so sure on him reversing the decision if by some miracle he came into power.
     
    gethinceri likes this.
  4. Dartman

    Dartman Points Scorer

    Bill Boddy , don't actually remember writing that, yes we voted to leave but the Farage bit, no, he wasn't the only one, Boris, Rees-Mogg and others with a separate agenda muddied the waters and now we are very deep in the mire otherwise known as the sh:censored:t and we still don't know what or who are actually jockeying for the PM's post or some other agenda. Basically they are running scared they may not succeed, so they won't push the limit. The question is, if they can't come out and state their ambitions or agenda are they those we want as leaders, for me you put your cards on the table and stand by them or F.O.
    Many years ago they were known as Fifth Columnists, those that appeared to have the country's interests at heart but actually had a very different agenda that was far right, the far right and the far left meet round the back and the average citizen looses out. With todays shenanigans I fear we may loose out.
     
  5. cider_and_toast

    cider_and_toast Everything in moderation Staff Member Premium Contributor

    Featured Threads:
    26
    What a bloody buggering great big mess.

    That pig snuffling arse faced weasel Cameron kicked everyone in the plums then ran away.

    What a sodding joke our political class are.

    Wish we could deselect everyone of them and start again.

    >:(:givemestrength:>:(:givemestrength:
     
    Fenderman and Angel like this.
  6. Andyoak

    Andyoak Race Winner

    We'll lose out whatever.
    If we try to cancel brexit and stay in the EU we'll have to lose all our vetoes, accept the euro and basically become a toothless member: punishment for trying it on.

    In addition I have no belief that the EU gives a **** about compromise or striking a deal. They dare not set a precedent.

    Better to bite the bullet and accept it will be a hard Brexit and get on with it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2018
    cider_and_toast likes this.
  7. vintly

    vintly Mostly bacon Premium Contributor

    Featured Threads:
    3
    Or no deal. I fully expect a politician to soon say, ‘The best deal for Britain is no deal’.
     
  8. cider_and_toast

    cider_and_toast Everything in moderation Staff Member Premium Contributor

    Featured Threads:
    26
    The referendum should have taken place in 1993 when the EEC officially fulfilled its original prophecy and became the European Union thanks to the Maastricht treaty.

    Thanks to a weak and divided Tory government (oooh sound familiar?) The issue was kicked into the long grass.

    I remember at the time Maastricht being described as a tidying up exercise. A treaty that would simplify our dealing with each other and would.make no difference to our lives etc. Of course it was obviously way more than that.

    Imagine how much more fun we'd be having if the Lisbon Treaty had have passed in its full original form with its European constitution and all.
     
    Andyoak likes this.
  9. FB

    FB Not my cup of cake Valued Member

    Featured Threads:
    50
    Fantasy F1 Profile:
    FF1 Profile
    Fantasy F1 Team-mate:
    FF1 Team-mate
    Fantasy F1 Rival:
    FF1 Rival
    Interesting counterpoint to the Airbus "the UK is going down the shitter and we will pull the plug after Brexit" is the recent pronouncments by Boeing that they have been increasing and intend to increase investment in the UK regardless of what happens. Any chance there might be a political element to the comments from Airbus?
     
    gethinceri and cider_and_toast like this.
  10. cider_and_toast

    cider_and_toast Everything in moderation Staff Member Premium Contributor

    Featured Threads:
    26
    Its exactly the same as JLR banging on about the dangers of brexit. It just so happens that the CEO of JLR is a German chap called Dr Ralph Speth. He previously worked for BMW.

    Also, by happy coincidence, production in JLR's brand new Slovakian plant starts this year.
     
  11. cider_and_toast

    cider_and_toast Everything in moderation Staff Member Premium Contributor

    Featured Threads:
    26
    Mind you, one of the loudest proponents of brexit from a business point of view is the owner of Wetherspoons which isn't exactly a global trading giant.
     
  12. FB

    FB Not my cup of cake Valued Member

    Featured Threads:
    50
    Fantasy F1 Profile:
    FF1 Profile
    Fantasy F1 Team-mate:
    FF1 Team-mate
    Fantasy F1 Rival:
    FF1 Rival
    Some of the pro and anti are very odd. James Dyson very much for leave. Charlie Mullins (of Pimlico Plumbers fame) very much for remain. Both tossers of the nth degree and not on the side you would expect.

    Jeremy Clarkson is a remainer, although this might be because Call me Dave said he couldn't come round for tea and biccies with him and Sam anymore if he said he supported leave. Tony Blair campaigned to leave the EU....

    ...in1983

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2018
    gethinceri, Angel and cider_and_toast like this.
  13. cider_and_toast

    cider_and_toast Everything in moderation Staff Member Premium Contributor

    Featured Threads:
    26
    I went from leave to remain over the years and looking at the pro's and cons. Still thinking remain even now but only just.

    Right now I just want it all done whatever the outcome.

    Having said all that, I chatted a lot with some very politically engaged people of all hues on here and one Labour supporting member has hugely softened my views over the years. The trouble is now I'm left looking at a bonkers Labour leadership and an appalling Tory one. So thanks to that Flipping Bloke I'm having a break down.

    LOL ;)
     
    gethinceri and Bill Boddy like this.
  14. Bill Boddy

    Bill Boddy Professional layabout Premium Contributor

    [QUOTE="cider_and_toast, post: 337304, member: 43".... It just so happens that the CEO of JLR is a German chap called Dr Ralph Speth.....[/QUOTE]

    As CEO of JLR Dr Speth is there to make the best profit; he certainly can't afford to let nationality enter into his judgement.

    Tim Martin was moaning earlier this year that Wetherspoons were having problems due to a combination of the minimum wave plus it being more difficult to recruit workers from EU countries to come hére following the drop on the value of the pound. He doesn't seem to relate these problems to brexi which seems a little odd to me.

    The reason Tim Martin wanted brexit was that he wanted us to secure deals which would bring cheaper alcohol into the country so that he could sell more. Just when the Scots were putting up the price of alcoholic drinks for health reasons. Would he be better off having customers who drink a bit less if it means that they drink for many uears longer?
     
  15. Bill Boddy

    Bill Boddy Professional layabout Premium Contributor

    As someone who has been a convinced socialist just about all my life I also have been getting confused cider_and_toast. The 1997 walkover seemed to be the goods but as it went along the Labour party moved well to the right of me and I finished up voting Conservative in 2010; in my defence, for the first few days I thought that I had voted LibDem. And now under Corbyn I find that I am to the right of the ruling faction

    But one thing that has been constant is my hatred of the Mad Witch.
     
    cider_and_toast likes this.
  16. cider_and_toast

    cider_and_toast Everything in moderation Staff Member Premium Contributor

    Featured Threads:
    26
    Seems like we are on a very similar page Bill Boddy
     
  17. cider_and_toast

    cider_and_toast Everything in moderation Staff Member Premium Contributor

    Featured Threads:
    26
    True, however JLR is owned by Tata motors which as you know is based in India so is better placed than many European based car makers to take on Brexit.

    JLR also have brand new plants in Slovakia, Brazil and China so its not all centred on the UK market.

    I agree it is all about the money though.
     
  18. Dartman

    Dartman Points Scorer

    However despite the pro's and cons of Brexit, whilst the muppets in the commons prevaricate, the value of the £ drops against the € due to the lack of international faith, mainly that there could be an opening for Corbyn. One does wonder if May had received the majority she went to the country for, would we still be in this position, unfortunately probably yes, due to the aforesaid muppets>:(
     
  19. Angel

    Angel Points Scorer Supporter

    Featured Threads:
    1
    David Cameron only offered us the referendum because he was certain he and his cronies would scare the living daylights out of us and we'd all vote remain, like he wanted us to. Then in the future when anyone complained about the EU he could smugly say 'well we gave you a vote, you chose to stay in'. It was an enormous gamble and he lost big time then as cider_and_toast says he ran away when he lost.

    I think most people believed that once the vote was over we'd be out pretty much straight away, not stuck in this unholy mess over two years later. The politicians gave us the public the choice and now have the gall to say we didn't know what we voted for and that they're trying to save us. I am so glad they have such a high opinion of us!!

    We have to get out now, there really is no going back. If we tried to the EU would make mincemeat of us. How will it all turn out? Goodness only knows, but one thing is for certain, the world didn't end when we voted out and it won't end when we leave either. It might be tough for a while but we've faced tough times before and come through just fine, that's the sort of country we are!
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2018
    Dartman likes this.
  20. FB

    FB Not my cup of cake Valued Member

    Featured Threads:
    50
    Fantasy F1 Profile:
    FF1 Profile
    Fantasy F1 Team-mate:
    FF1 Team-mate
    Fantasy F1 Rival:
    FF1 Rival
    What is starting to stick in my craw is the democratic deficit we have. The vote was to leave the EU, there wasn't any discussion about soft brexit, hard brexit or what model we should follow should we leave. The EU has four fundamental freedoms: The free movement of goods, capital, services and labour. If the UK won't accept all four of these these we leave and trade with the EU as a third party nation.

    This means some unpalatable decisions have to be made. There must be a land border between the north and south in Ireland, unless the EU agree that there doesn't need to be one. We leave the single market and the customs union, unless the EU agree that we can reatin some of the benefits of this. We no longer have to accept the free movement of EU citizens, uncontrolled, into the UK, unless the EU agree a compromise to give us control over migration. We lose access, as we currently have it, to the services sector (which is the major a part of our economy these days) as do the EU, unless they agree to maintain access to our mutual benefit as a huge amount of banking, insurance and other services in the EU are provided by UK institutions.

    I hope you're getting the point here. The UK can ask for what it wants. The UK can argue internally about the pros and cons of being in different parts of the EU until we disappear up our own backsides. The power broker here is the EU and until they tell us what they will allow the UK to have (not what we ask them for) this isn't going anywhere.

    Instead of all these morinic poilticians in Westminster arguing amongst themselves and telling Goverment "what we must have" they should be pointing there fingers at Barnier and Junckers and saying to them that they have to come up with something or tell us we can have nothing.

    It is not the UK's place to tell the EU what we want, it is the EU's place to propose what we can have and then we negotiate. Then, and only then, can we know what sort of settlement can be achieved
     
    The Pits, Angel, Dartman and 2 others like this.
  21. Andyoak

    Andyoak Race Winner

    Can we have a special button for FB likes - a single like isn't good enough.
     
    Angel and cider_and_toast like this.

Share This

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use it, you are agreeing to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice