The 2012 Season

I'm not quite sure about everyone's belief in Hulkenberg. While I acknowledge he has an excellent resume in junior categories, his first year in F1 was hardly stellar. Barrichello outscored him 47 to 22, this is a man who now can't even get a drive in F1 and Force India are outing Sutil, a known quantity who this year has shown real maturity in the car and (for me at least) should have done enough to kee[ his seat.
 
Whats the difference between Hulks first season and Di Resta's? Sutil out scored Paul 42 to 27 and Di Resta didn't score a poll. 5 points difference on debut seasons ain't much and lets face it last years Williams was also nowhere near as good as this years Force India. Yet Di Resta gets 'rookie' of the year and the Hulk gets kicked on his ass. I guess thats what you get for not being British eh?
 
RasputinLives said:
Whats the difference between Hulks first season and Di Resta's? Sutil out scored Paul 42 to 27 and Di Resta didn't score a poll. 5 points difference on debut seasons ain't much and lets face it last years Williams was also nowhere near as good as this years Force India. Yet Di Resta gets 'rookie' of the year and the Hulk gets kicked on his ass. I guess thats what you get for not being British eh?
Click to expand

I'm not being biased to di Resta because he's British.

I actually think the 2010 Williams and 2011 Force India are not too dissimilar. Both car were capable of sneaking into the points in the first half of the season, come the second half both made regular appearances in the top 10 soring points. The main difference is that di Resta is compared to Sutil, who I personally consider to be a better driver than Barrichello.

As for the pole it doesn't mean much to me. The conditions were pretty bad, and yes while I admit Hulkenberg performed best, that is only one qualifying session and Hulkenberg didn't seem to have those standout performances like di Resta qualifying 6th at his home race and finishing 6th in Singapore.

I know Hulkenberg has talent and I think he deserves to be in F1, I just wouldn't have replaced Sutil for him.
 
Problem was Hulkenberg was being talked up of being the " Next Big Thing" and managed by Willi Weber ( Schumacher's manager) obviously increased the hype.

There was immense praise of Hulkenberg and many were expecting big things of him first season like Hamilton or Vettel.

It was latter races where he started showing his abilities more

Di Resta came through DTM and the only link he had was through Mercedes and the fact that he BEAT Vettel who was his teammate is something very few other drivers can brag about in the same team
Now a bit of British bias by the BBC to push him obviously although EJ ( an Irishman) was more vocal for him than DC because of a lack of British drivers in F1

Where as Hulkenberg came into F1 and had other German drivers getting the attention namely Vettel and Rosberg
 
no-FIAt-please said:
I'm not being biased to di Resta because he's British.
Click to expand

I wasn't suggesting you were just it seems that way when the media have judged their rookie season.

no-FIAt-please said:
I actually think the 2010 Williams and 2011 Force India are not too dissimilar. Both car were capable of sneaking into the points in the first half of the season, come the second half both made regular appearances in the top 10 soring points. The main difference is that di Resta is compared to Sutil, who I personally consider to be a better driver than Barrichello.
Click to expand

Have to disagree with you on both those points. Williams were running the very much underpowered Cosworth engine and did not have the benifit of the Mclaren Kers and technology from 2 top teams. I think what you actually saw was Rubens and Nico taking advantage of others mistakes and getting results they prob shouldn't. Rubens especially - and whilst I'll agree with you that this season Sutil is the superior driver I think if you're gonna take any driver to compare a rookie against Barrichello is prob best for that.

I agree with you that it seems harsh on dropping Sutil but then I think it was harsh they dropped Liuzzi the year before! Sutil is not on anyone's future world champion list I'm afraid so he makes way.

Il_leone said:
Problem was Hulkenberg was being talked up of being the " Next Big Thing" and managed by Willi Weber ( Schumacher's manager) obviously increased the hype.

There was immense praise of Hulkenberg and many were expecting big things of him first season like Hamilton or Vettel.

It was latter races where he started showing his abilities more

Di Resta came through DTM and the only link he had was through Mercedes and the fact that he BEAT Vettel who was his teammate is something very few other drivers can brag about in the same team
Now a bit of British bias by the BBC to push him obviously although EJ ( an Irishman) was more vocal for him than DC because of a lack of British drivers in F1

Where as Hulkenberg came into F1 and had other German drivers getting the attention namely Vettel and Rosberg
Click to expand

You have a funny way of looking at things - yes Hulkenberg had Weber behind him but no one has been more hyped than Paul Di Resta. I was being told he was a future world champion almost a full year before he got a seat in F1. The Vettel thing is a prime example actually. The fact you've even quoted it means I'm right about the hype machine.

You are right though in 2006 Paul Di Resta won the Formula 3 Euro Series by 11 points from Sebastian Vettel when Di Resta was 20 years old and Vettel has just turned 19. It is actually the only single seater series that Di Resta has ever won unless you count the one of race that is called Masters Of Formula 3 the same year. In fact its the only single seater series he's ever been a top runner in which never gets mentioned muh They were pretty much neck and neck until about the last 3 races which strangely co-incided with Vettel uping his duties with the BMW F1 team as tester. Vettel then went on to pretty much jump straight into F1 whilst Di Resta spent 4 years fannying around in German Touring cars until his cousin Franchetti decided to get his PR company behind him - did a deal with Merc and got Anthony Hamilton involved to seal the deal.

But the public wants what the public gets I suppose as proven by the rookie of the year vote.

Don't get me wrong I think Paul had a good rookie season but his season was not superior to many others(including the Hulk) but he has the right manager getting the right journalists on side.
 
Brogan said:
McLaren to launch their car 1 February.
Click to expand

Does that mean they will be the first team to launch their car based on those who have already revealed their intensions?

It does seem rather early, baring in mind the first Test is the 7th. One would think it would be better to reveal the new car on the 6th or 7th itself.

I guess it will make sense if McLaren unveil it inside the MTC, but it won't make sense if they decide to take it to another country again and will thus lose a few days of crucial development time.
 
I daresay the timing is based on commercial considerations and avoiding any of the other major launches to get maximum media exposure.

The car that is launched is usually substantially different to the car that is tested, never mind the car that will be raced in Melbourne, and I'm sure the development programme for the car will continue in a way that is unaffected by any particular launch date or venue - the teams have plenty of experience of this. Well, except HRT.
 
no-FIAt-please said:
I
As for the pole it doesn't mean much to me. The conditions were pretty bad, and yes while I admit Hulkenberg performed best, that is only one qualifying session and Hulkenberg didn't seem to have those standout performances like di Resta qualifying 6th at his home race and finishing 6th in Singapore.
Click to expand

Surely a pole position counts as a standout performance! And don't forget Hulk finished sixth in Hungary, ahead of Button on merit.
 
And of course he did very well (despite the chicane hopping) at Monza to beat home Kubica and Schumacher.

Essentially, qualifying 6th in a wet session does not trump qualifying on pole in a wet session.
 
Just had a look on Sky Bet and there's some interesting odds on there for 2012.

http://www.skybet.com/betting/formula-1/c46.html

In particular that Hamilton has shorter odds at 4/1 than Button does at 6/1 even after his below par season. Also the extremely large odd differences with Alonso and Massa, at 5/1 for Alonso and 50/1 with Massa while both are in the same car, this really highlights how bad public opinion of Massa is. Also that Kubica is at 500/1 while not having a seat and physically being unable to race, yet Kovalainen has the same odds while having a great season last year and actually having a race seat albeit in what is likely to be a reasonably slow car.
 
The thing about betting is that bookmakers do not care who will win or come second or whatever. They care about making a profit, the odds are set according to what from previous experience will be how much is likely to go on each driver.

They know that there are more Hamilton than Button fans who will bet and the odds reflect this.
 
Bill Boddy said:
The thing about betting is that bookmakers do not care who will win or come second or whatever. They care about making a profit, the odds are set according to what from previous experience will be how much is likely to go on each driver.

They know that there are more Hamilton than Button fans who will bet and the odds reflect this.
Click to expand

Button 100-1 2009 world title having only sorted a drive with Brawn who were not sure they could see out the season
 
RasputinLives said:
I wasn't suggesting you were just it seems that way when the media have judged their rookie season.



Have to disagree with you on both those points. Williams were running the very much underpowered Cosworth engine and did not have the benifit of the Mclaren Kers and technology from 2 top teams. I think what you actually saw was Rubens and Nico taking advantage of others mistakes and getting results they prob shouldn't. Rubens especially - and whilst I'll agree with you that this season Sutil is the superior driver I think if you're gonna take any driver to compare a rookie against Barrichello is prob best for that.

I agree with you that it seems harsh on dropping Sutil but then I think it was harsh they dropped Liuzzi the year before! Sutil is not on anyone's future world champion list I'm afraid so he makes way.



You have a funny way of looking at things - yes Hulkenberg had Weber behind him but no one has been more hyped than Paul Di Resta. I was being told he was a future world champion almost a full year before he got a seat in F1. The Vettel thing is a prime example actually. The fact you've even quoted it means I'm right about the hype machine.

You are right though in 2006 Paul Di Resta won the Formula 3 Euro Series by 11 points from Sebastian Vettel when Di Resta was 20 years old and Vettel has just turned 19. It is actually the only single seater series that Di Resta has ever won unless you count the one of race that is called Masters Of Formula 3 the same year. In fact its the only single seater series he's ever been a top runner in which never gets mentioned muh They were pretty much neck and neck until about the last 3 races which strangely co-incided with Vettel uping his duties with the BMW F1 team as tester. Vettel then went on to pretty much jump straight into F1 whilst Di Resta spent 4 years fannying around in German Touring cars until his cousin Franchetti decided to get his PR company behind him - did a deal with Merc and got Anthony Hamilton involved to seal the deal.

But the public wants what the public gets I suppose as proven by the rookie of the year vote.

Don't get me wrong I think Paul had a good rookie season but his season was not superior to many others(including the Hulk) but he has the right manager getting the right journalists on side.
Click to expand
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The BBC namely EJ hyped DI Resta up to replace Liuzzi whilst DC said wait until a new season as he does not want to do a Grosjean with no testing

However yes given that Vettel was rated a serious hot property when he jumped into F1 there was hype about DI Resta in 2007 and pushing for him to be in F1 on the basis he beat Vettel in the same team the previous year and also Mclaren Young Driver award winner as well.

All I remember was Vettel had some accidents towards the end of Euro F3 2006 and Autosport tried to compare those mistakes to the ones he made in 2010 regarding the silly accidents and wheel bashing in throwing the title away

This was before Abu Dhabi 2010

-----------------

Now Hulkenberg when you got a tag the "next Big Thing" that does not help especially when you're following the benchmark of Lewis Hamilton into F1 as rookie. More importantly Hulkenberg won all the junior categories before F1 such as GP2 and A1 GP series and Williams obviously were not afraid to give him a run if he was not talented
 
no-FIAt-please said:
I'm not quite sure about everyone's belief in Hulkenberg. While I acknowledge he has an excellent resume in junior categories, his first year in F1 was hardly stellar. Barrichello outscored him 47 to 22, this is a man who now can't even get a drive in F1 and Force India are outing Sutil, a known quantity who this year has shown real maturity in the car and (for me at least) should have done enough to kee[ his seat.
Click to expand

He was up against a rejuvanated Barrichello who was in contention for the title the year before.

It's not as if he did Jan Magnussen, he performed well, showed he had star quality with his pole which was over 1 second faster than the nearest time.

Barrichello this year, I have to say is totally different from last year as he doesn't seem comfortable at Williams at all, and this is from early on in the season.
 
Wins achieved thus far by F1 drivers on 2012 grid:

TBY.jpg


and their podiums:

TBY.jpg
 

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