Head To Head Nico Rosberg vs Lewis Hamilton

[Il_leone]

Kewee Paddy Lowe should not have interfered I go back to his time at Mclaren when he had to do deal with Hamilton and Alonso and then Mclaren could have issued an order for Alonso to slow the pace down or bring him in to allow Hamilton the extra points against Raikkonen but Mclaren did not

Why because Mclaren knew it was pointless in doing it when you got two competitive animals wanting to win so much

 

[Dario Resta]

Dario Resta You fail to see my point whether it was Schumacher , Senna or Alonso they all would have done exactly the same thing in the circumstances well the former two would take the other driver out

I used Schumacher as an example because everyone would laud him for being so aware of everything happening around him . He has done in the past where he has allowed his teammate past to get extra points in races .

BUT its also a good business for Mercedes bosses that they have a German world champion in a German car. Just look at who they have hired since they've comeback in F1 as a team

Disappearing into the distance like you said which Lewis should have done would have only got 1 result 1-2 for Mercedes which he knew would not be enough so what was the point

There is no rule within the F1 regulations that states you must win at the fastest speed possible other than you must first across the chequered flag and show unsportsmanlike and dangerous driving ... none was that evident yesterday

So are people saying it is okay to use your teammate to back up the pack as a rear gunner against your championship rival but it is not acceptable if you are doing it to your teammate who is your championship rival ?

The Schumacher example is ridiculous. I can't think of a previous case where a driver has tried to manipulate a worse result than they were going to otherwise get for their team. Do I really have to spell it out? Lewis wanted to win for him, and if that meant Ferrari, RBR or someone else beating the other Merc, then he was all for that. Are you really for screwing your employer for your own benefit? Lewis is a brilliant driver, a credit to F1 - and I've been a fan since the mid 70's- but that tactic was piss poor. Yes, of course backing up a driver from a rival team is legitimate - it's not against the rules ( as indeed Lewis' tactics weren't), but against your own team?? Do you not find that a bit childish?

Can't remember a time where Schumacher tried to gift points to a rival team.

 

[Dario Resta]

Lewis being suspended by Mercedes or even sacked as some have suggested would be the biggest PR disaster and sends out the wrong message about driving and trying to win the world title

Considering how much exposure from a business point of view that Mercedes have got and probably increased road car sales
because of Lewis Hamilton then the threat sounds daft given he is still one of the most coveted drivers on the current grid

Mercedes would rather have them winning races for them than winning races against them

Lewis won't be suspended, and he shouldn't be anyway. Toto should have a word and remind him that he's not the boss. Look, no-one wants Lewis to drive the car any different than he knows best. Sunday wasn't a Lewis drive - it was desperation. I want the full-on drive it like you stole it Lewis. Not the if I can't be Kevin Keegan I'm taking my ball home version.

 

[Il_leone]

'Lewis was right to do what he did'

Crofty's opinion

Dario Resta It was the only option open to him given such the superiority of the Mercedes

Now Vettel has had to defend himself for not trying to pass Rosberg after calling Hamilton playing dirty tricks

Well anything can happen in F1 but now stories emerging Hamilton wanted to quit after Spain this year so it appears he is not enjoying life at Mercedes as he is playing out

As for sacking him definitely not and I am sure both Toto and Niki see that but do the Mercedes board see it given they have a world champion in Rosberg and think they can cut their losses with Hamilton

When they started their F1 comeback - they did not want Button even though the team could have been carrying car No 1 by default in 2010 for business reasons

Mercedes are not Ferrari but Lewis Hamilton's value to the team might have diminished enough for them to dispense him

Schumacher a worse result for the team - how about not actually trying to challenge Hakkinen in 1999 which meant Eddie Irvine would have been world champion in Japan

 

[KekeTheKing]

I've come to the conclusion that Lewis unwittingly did Nico an enormous favor on Sunday. He basically provided Rosberg a signature moment for the season and gave him the opportunity to display the stuff World Champions are made of. I applaud Hamilton's efforts and how he brilliantly controlled the race without doing anything untoward but there's no question that Nico has become the beneficiary.

Before withstanding the crucible that was Abu Dhabi there were precious few memorable moments from Nico's season that didn't involve a coming-together. A third of his wins came when Hamilton was forced to the back with PU problems. The wet weather performances were forgettable and he only beat Lewis 5 times when they both competed in Q3. This is all irrelevant now. He overtook Verstappen. He survived Yas Marina. He earned an extraordinary podium. This is how the Championship will largely be remembered.

On the flip-side, Hamilton has provided his detractors with fodder to regurgitate for months. And I am actually thankful that he didn't really back Rosberg into traffic, as winning that way would have been a PR nightmare. Numerous knowledgeable journalists and drivers have supported the way Lewis controlled the race with an eye on capturing the crown but this is of no import for those with an axe to grind. He'll be accused of dirty tricks and exaggerated reports of a rift in the team will emerge. I'm quite certain he would race the exact same way if the GP were run again tomorrow though.

I had another thought concerning the fabled "consistency" required to win a Title. No doubt Nico was incredibly consistent, but by what measure was he more consistent than Lewis? Fewer Poles, Podiums, and Wins. There is of course one key metric that was decisive but I realize this is not what is meant when consistency is touted as the differentiation. Point being, it's just not as simple as saying Rosberg was more "consistent" this season.

Finally I need to say that Nico is undoubtedly a worthy Champ. He's fought Lewis hard for 4 seasons and I sincerely hope his winning the Title will benefit the sport as a whole. Its gonna be a long off-season for Hamilton but he should take solace in the fact that Prost and Senna both lost titles in similar circumstances.

Roll on 2017

 

[Kewee]

Kewee Paddy Lowe should not have interfered I go back to his time at Mclaren when he had to do deal with Hamilton and Alonso and then Mclaren could have issued an order for Alonso to slow the pace down or bring him in to allow Hamilton the extra points against Raikkonen but Mclaren did not

Why because Mclaren knew it was pointless in doing it when you got two competitive animals wanting to win so much

We seem to agree Il_leone, as I said the pitwall should have stayed out of it, especially Paddy Lowe. My thoughts are still the same, in equal cars without the bad luck Lewis will beat Nico 95% of the time. My early prediction for next year, a hell of a season with Hamilton winning his fourth title.

 

[Bill Boddy]

How does Rosberg feel about it?

Lewis Hamilton: Nico Rosberg says debate over rival's tactics is 'pointless'

 

[Road of Bones]

Indeed - the debate is pointless, because his tactics didn't work...

 

[Dario Resta]

'Lewis was right to do what he did'

Crofty's opinion

Dario Resta It was the only option open to him given such the superiority of the Mercedes

Now Vettel has had to defend himself for not trying to pass Rosberg after calling Hamilton playing dirty tricks

Well anything can happen in F1 but now stories emerging Hamilton wanted to quit after Spain this year so it appears he is not enjoying life at Mercedes as he is playing out

As for sacking him definitely not and I am sure both Toto and Niki see that but do the Mercedes board see it given they have a world champion in Rosberg and think they can cut their losses with Hamilton

When they started their F1 comeback - they did not want Button even though the team could have been carrying car No 1 by default in 2010 for business reasons

Mercedes are not Ferrari but Lewis Hamilton's value to the team might have diminished enough for them to dispense him

Schumacher a worse result for the team - how about not actually trying to challenge Hakkinen in 1999 which meant Eddie Irvine would have been world champion in Japan

Well, it looks like we won't be agreeing on this, and that's fine. I rarely agree with Jackie Stewart, but he didn't like Lewis' tactics. Going back to Suzuka 1999 - Schumacher was 1.5 seconds faster than Irvine in quali, and if he hadn't muffed the start, may have helped Eddie win the WDC. Schumacher was also massively held up by Coulthard - around 2.5 seconds, even though he'd been lapped. I think you're being a little unfair on Schumacher, but hey, I wouldn't expect anything else.

 

[olegg]

Just compare

 

[Titch]

I don't like Mercedes attitude, by telling Hamilton not to back Rosberg into the pack, even though the team would loose nothing, they were basically saying , we are backing Rosberg, not you. They both wanted to be WDC, they should have been allowed to fight it out, the team should have said nothing. Zilch. Even if they had taken each other off, it wouldn't have affected the outcome.
Poor show, from Mercedes.

 

[Il_leone]

Dario Resta The fact was Schumacher was fast enough to challenge Hakkinen for the race win and he did not bother because it would meant Irvine would have been champion had he won the race and Hakkinen finishing 2nd

the way the race turned out even if Schumacher let Irvine pass into 2nd , Hakkinen would have been champion on count back . The only consolation was Ferrari that they had won the constructors title if not Jean Todt would have probably been close to getting sacked

It was no secret that Todt, Brawn and Schumacher did not want Irvine to be world champion

 

[Il_leone]

Bill Boddy Nico's right its all academic and why does some journalist create further needle and spoil his moment of glory. I think Mark Webber would have given a more blunt response

Nico has no reason to be bitter now and good on him

 

[Il_leone]

Apparently Lewis was told if he dared back the pack up early in the race then the team would have bought in Nico to have the undercut but off course Max acted as a spoiler to the party which threw things slightly

Lewis only did enough to stretch out but not too far away from his rivals such that he knew he could play the tactic after the pit stops we're all done..

 

[Dario Resta]

Dario Resta The fact was Schumacher was fast enough to challenge Hakkinen for the race win and he did not bother because it would meant Irvine would have been champion had he won the race and Hakkinen finishing 2nd

the way the race turned out even if Schumacher let Irvine pass into 2nd , Hakkinen would have been champion on count back . The only consolation was Ferrari that they had won the constructors title if not Jean Todt would have probably been close to getting sacked

It was no secret that Todt, Brawn and Schumacher did not want Irvine to be world champion

Please, prove he didn't bother. You are correct that there was no point Schumacher letting Eddie through unless Mika retired, but the rest of your conspiracy theory is drivel. Everyone in the top brass at Ferrari didn't want one of their drivers to be WDC? go on, face it, say it, you hate Schumacher.

In your own words, Todt was close to the sack. Constructors champions and the WDC would have been OK though - can't do much better. Maybe that's why he didn't want Eddie to win it. He fancied getting the sack. I can't believe I'm even replying to this.

Do you have an issue with Germans??

 

[Il_leone]

Titch Mercedes wanted a 1-2 unfortunately and Hamilton wanted a different result to what the team desired

 

[Il_leone]

Dario Resta

I don;t have issue with all Germans they just happen to the other most successful nation in F1 at the moment back I'll be happy if Hulkenberg actually wins races at Renault

I don't rate Wehrlein because he thinks he deserves some special privilege being backed by Mercedes , Vettel - he's proven to be a very bad loser this season and constantly moaning which is actually irritating the Ferrari hierarchy

I don;t have anything against Rosberg but he is not in the same league as Hamilton which is plain obvious

Both Todt and Brawn were not making endorsing comments about IRvine and reminding him he was No 2 even when Schumacher was injured with a broken leg that was a fact

Schumacher did not want to come back that season and it was Luca Di Montezemolo who called him to come back not Todt or Brawn after the missing tyre fiasco because he heard he was able to play football in the garden from Schumacher's daughter when he rang him

How many team principals last more than 3 years at Ferrari without delivering titles ?

You have asked for an example of Schumacher giving points away to another team so I give you one like you ask because you think Schumacher what not do what Hamilton did ...yeah you're right he's done a lot worse already

I'll say it again Schumacher's achievements would have gotten more credibility if he handled things better and I am not in the minority of one who thinks this

 

[Dario Resta]

Dario Resta

I don;t have issue with all Germans they just happen to the other most successful nation in F1 at the moment back I'll be happy if Hulkenberg actually wins races at Renault

I don't rate Wehrlein because he is been molly coodled too much , Vettel - he's proven to be a very bad loser this season and constantly moaning which is actually irritating the Ferrari hierarchy

but both Todt and Brawn were not making endorsing comments about IRvine and reminding him he was No 2 even when Schumacher was injured with a broken leg that was a fact

Schumacher did not want to come back that season and it was Luca Di Montezemolo who called him to come back not Todt or Brawn after the missing tyre fiasco because he heard he was able to play football in the garden from Schumacher's daughter when he rang him

How many team principals last more than 3 years at Ferrari without delivering titles ?

You have asked for an example of Schumacher giving points away to another team so I give you one like you ask because you think Schumacher is no different to what Hamilton did ...yeah you're right he's done a lot worse

Well done. You are of course absolutely right. Schumacher did the worst thing he could possibly have done - Jerez was shocking - nothing other than blatant cheating. Look, the man isn't a saint, although I'm happy to defend him for the Damon Hill collision. Schumacher was a product of the Senna years, so yes, there were some controversial moments. Going back to 1999, and to your accusation that Schumacher deliberately hindered Irvine's chances of winning the WDC, the facts don't stack up. You just stated Ferrari team principals don't last without titles, but in a previous post stated that the team principal didn't want Eddie to be WDC. Which is it? Maybe you'd like to remind me what happened in the 1999 Malaysian GP.

 

[cider_and_toast]

Yeah, the Germans are really successful at the moment.

The Mercedes-Benz Car is built in Brackley, with an engine made in Northamptonshire. Designed by two Brits and an Italian, driven by a Brit and a German, in a team managed by an Austrian and sponsored by a Malaysian company.

Deutschland Uber Alles !!!

 

[Kewee]

But all the unknowing public see is the Mercedes badge and Mercedes know what effect that has on sales.