Jenson, Lewis and Tyres - A theory

[Il_leone]

anyone got Autosport last week an article on Button how he decided to take the lion's den challenge and join Mclaren alongside Hamilton after his world title in 2009. Apparently Jenson was not bothered with Mercedes counter offer after being told there was no money for a raise...he went as far as telling Richie Goddard his manager to do anything to get the drive in other words even if Mclaren offered it for free

Whitmarsh obviously did not really think about it until talks with Kimi stalled and realised that the world champion coming to the team was big especially it is two British drivers.

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As for the race I have already said time and time again Button is acting like Alain Prost did against Hamilton's Senna... forget about trying to beat him in a straight quali fight. Button acknowledged Hamilton is one of the fastest over 1 lap so concentrate on getting a car that is race pace consistent which was the trait of Prost in his prime and certainly against Senna it was

I think Hamilton was just surprised that Button kept pulling away from him after the previous day's qualli suggested he was going to win from the start

I think if Hamilton lead in turn 1 I think Button would have been able to hold onto him and Jenson's usually better mid to late race pace might have pushed him hard for a late race fight

 

[Il_leone]

Lewis' all out attack from the start only really works if he is given a clear track to do so much like Senna had.

I think its right that Button got the jump at the start which meant he could dictate the pace and as the lead man get first call into the pits usually which in turn forced Hamilton to do another lap which is when the tyres really went off.

it has to be said Lewis needs to be prepared to make changes to his strategy to add that element rather than sit and wait for the call as he will lose out most times

it should be said the track was warmer on Sunday than Saturday which meant it worked in favour of other cars like the Red Bull as well to get more heat into the tyres

 

[Mephistopheles]

I think the last two posts just go to prove my point, this thread is so far off topic it is no longer relevant, I also believe that when a thread title has the names Lewis and Jenson in it the actual reason for the thread being posted in the first place will always be lost.

How forums manage to operate in germany with so many germans on the grid and two in the same team I dread to think..

 

[downforce]

I did see that article, and I think Hamilton is losing it, I don't think he has what it takes to beat Button anymore - pyscologically

 

[the_roadie]

I did see that article, and I think Hamilton is losing it, I don't think he has what it takes to beat Button anymore - pyscologically

But give it a couple more years when Hamilton has acquired something approaching Button's racecraft experience, possibly in (an)other team(s) if the rumours are to be acknowledged, and he'll lose that rookie attitude that looks to be still present after his several but still comparatively few years in F1. Give Hamilton a couple of wins over Button this season and it'll be game on again, Lewis will come out from under the dark cloud of his own making

 

[Bill Boddy]

....
I am not saying Lewis is like Voltaires Candide of course, but he has a chance to prove that good guys win in the long run

Where does the good guy win in Candide? He just retires to the country and works hard on the land, his optimism has come to nothing.

 

[racecub]

I hope Lewis doesnt read newspapers, because the Guardian will do nothing to improve his mood.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/mar/19/jenson-button-f1-mclaren
"Jenson Button's tilt at another F1 championship excites McLaren

McLaren have backed Jenson Button to repeat his world championship success of 2009 following his stunning win in the season's opening race here on Sunday.
McLaren, famously, do not have a preferred driver. They treat Button and Lewis Hamilton equally. But the team principal Martin Whitmarsh's high praise for Button, and his confidence that the 32-year-old can win the title, will cause Hamilton to bristle in the run-up to the next race in Malaysia on Sunday"





Im not sure if this should go in this thread. And sorry guys but I posted some stuff about tyres in the Ausralia GP thread before I spotted this thread. DOH! Moderators nightmare! Feel free to move anything Ive put in the wrong place.

 

[Cookinflatsix]

Where does the good guy win in Candide? He just retires to the country and works hard on the land, his optimism has come to nothing.

Where does anyone say the good guy wins in Candide? Are you ablle to respond to anything without being pedantic? By focussing on the trees it's easy to lose sight of the majesty of the woods

Let's try again

Lewis is not like the character in Candide
But he has a chance to prove, Unlike Voltaires ironic fictional character that those not set on capricious paths (good guys) can come good without changing

 

[Kewee]

Presumably since Hamilton had more fuel then he would be able to put in fewer fuel saving laps than Button. In fact, according to what McLaren said about they would have been quicker with more fuel in Hamilton would have had an overall advantage. So that makes Button's drive even more remarkable.

Alternatively, Melbourne is one of the tracks that suits Button most, he is not as good when it comes to circuits where the kerbs have to be attacked and the car thrown around.

This weekend Button won the race on merit. Next weekend it may well be Hamilton who does it. Enjoy their racing whichever of them it is (or even someone else).

Bill the headline on Autosport is misleading. Martin Whitmarsh say quite clearly that the team miscalculated the fuel and it affected both Button and Lewis. Some people have suggested that Button was fueled lighter and therefore had an advantage over Hamilton. From what I've read that doesn't appear to be the case.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

My thread got killed.

 

[Kewee]

My thread got killed.

Sorry Ninja, I came in a little late and didn't read the topic then fired in a comment to Bill.

 

[ExtremeNinja]

It died way before you got here.

 

[RasputinLives]

Yup, 1 (mine) is based on facts that I have stated clearly, another, Rasputins, is based on personal observation as he has clearly stated

Lots of threads for discussing how well Jenson did, this one is about theories, but people keep saying don't dissect this or that, say nothing and just accept that Button did well

Yes Cook your well known for your use of facts on here. I still remember Red Bulls Magic Button and all the facts you had for that. Yours isn't based on facts because Jenson was faster for 38 of the 58 laps not just the first 8 or 9 - and was much faster at the end of the GP than he was anyways - meaning the heavy fuel stuff is nonsense. Manipulating the facts to fit your own theory means it might as well be personel observation.

My point about the discussion was that when Lewis beats Jenson their is not a three day investigation into the cause of it.

 

[Il_leone]

My thread got killed.

Oh dear

that is what happens... a long way from Hamilton will annilihate Button days of 2010 !

 

[Brogan]

http://cliptheapex.com/threads/jenson-button-vs-lewis-hamilton.4734/

 

[Il_leone]

I hope Lewis doesnt read newspapers, because the Guardian will do nothing to improve his mood.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/mar/19/jenson-button-f1-mclaren
"Jenson Button's tilt at another F1 championship excites McLaren

McLaren have backed Jenson Button to repeat his world championship success of 2009 following his stunning win in the season's opening race here on Sunday.
McLaren, famously, do not have a preferred driver. They treat Button and Lewis Hamilton equally. But the team principal Martin Whitmarsh's high praise for Button, and his confidence that the 32-year-old can win the title, will cause Hamilton to bristle in the run-up to the next race in Malaysia on Sunday"





Im not sure if this should go in this thread. And sorry guys but I posted some stuff about tyres in the Ausralia GP thread before I spotted this thread. DOH! Moderators nightmare! Feel free to move anything Ive put in the wrong place.

Whitmarsh did go on say that he wants Lewis to be express his disappointment at being 3rd because he knows Lewis always wants to win and have that ambition

and he expects both drivers to go further

I do think people are making too much of this after 1 race . Its going to see saw and hopefully they put Red Bull in the shade and wipe the grin of Vettel and Horner

 

[racecub]

I know he did. And its only in a newspaper article. I just think the timing of the comments was a touch insensitive and not conducive to gettin the best from Lewis next race.

 

[RasputinLives]

I know he did. And its only in a newspaper article. I just think the timing of the comments was a touch insensitive and not conducive to gettin the best from Lewis next race.

Yeah but if he hadn't said it wouldn't it have been a bit unfair to Jenson?

 

[Il_leone]

I know he did. And its only in a newspaper article. I just think the timing of the comments was a touch insensitive and not conducive to gettin the best from Lewis next race.

Maybe Lewis should speak to Alonso and ask him how he felt in 2007 in a similar position

 

[ExtremeNinja]

Guys, seriously. Brogan has gone to the trouble of creating a whole new thread for you to continue this discussion. Can you take it over there please?