Head To Head Jenson Button vs Lewis Hamilton

Discussion in 'Formula One Discussion' started by Brogan, Mar 20, 2012.

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  1. Brogan

    Brogan Leg end Staff Member

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    A place to discuss the battle between these two team mates in an attempt to stop all other threads this season from being derailed.

    So far the honours are even with Hamilton getting the better of Button in 2010, but Button returning the favour in 2011.

    Who will come out on top in 2012?
    Will Button continue where he left off or will Hamilton regain his form of previous seasons prior to his annus horribilis?

    Just remember to keep within the site rules and guidelines - we don't want this degenerating into a shouting match.
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  3. Il_leone

    Il_leone Champion Elect

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    Just switch Button vs Hamilton to Prost vs Senna

    its going to be like that. The difference is its Lewis is being pushed to the edge by a calmer more rounded teammated whereas Prost could not deal with the intensity and ruthlessness of Senna driving him to the edge
  4. RickD

    RickD Pole Sitter

    I can see this thread getting nasty if Jenson keeps beating Lewis. I would have to say that Jenson seems to have the upper hand at the moment though. :D
    mjo likes this.
  5. Il_leone

    Il_leone Champion Elect

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    Quite a turn around from the days people expected him to be annihilated when people thought he was mad to join Mclaren with Hamilton as his teammate
    RickD and The Artist..... like this.
  6. Cookinflatsix

    Cookinflatsix Banned

    At least hopefully we won't be subjected to the usual posts moaning about being forced to read a Lewis vs Jenson argument
    Let's hope some will get the point from the title

    I think a great season awaits, what better sporting spectacle than the battle between two closely matched and totally different sportsmen, and in the same car
    I truly hope Jenson hasn't shot his bolt at his favourite circuit for the season and can put up similar resistance against Lewis' superior pace for the rest of the season
    I think that ultimately speed will triumph but I want to see Jenson battle the whole year with his experience and guile

    I hope his supporters on here can also remain civil and put up a good display of subjective debating over the rest of the season

    This thread does not have to get nasty if everyone behaves and follows the rules
    mjo, Fenderman, Road of Bones and 2 others like this.
  7. Il_leone

    Il_leone Champion Elect

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    I am sure this Hamilton vs Button battle will really hot up...in fact there is the matter of the fact no one has mentioned there is a guy named Vettel who is the world champion in all of this who might have a say

    Ferrari I think will lose too much ground until they get back to Spain but it is no comfort for them
    Mercedes I think will act as mobile chicanes due to their 1 lap speed in quali but their high tyre wear will mess people's races

    Webber says he likes the non EBD Red Bull better and notice the gap between him and Vettel is a lot closer now but still keeps messing up starts due to his additional weight affecting the ballast

    Sepang interesting enough Hamilton does not a great record as he had only 1 podium back in 2007 whereas Button won there and has a couple of podiums and was denied his first podium due to a suspension failure in 2002

    There are circuits where Hamilton will truly be quick like Monaco and Canada

    So far 1 - nil to Button let battle commence
    RickD, Fenderman and Cookinflatsix like this.
  8. LJKSet

    LJKSet Rookie

    I would expect Button to do better this season than last. Not necessarily perform any better, but I suspect that his apparently, and quickly forged, close relationship with the team may just have influenced some of the finer points of the direction in which the car was developed. That is to say, this year´s car may have been developed in a way that suits Button´s style better than last years car. I am not saying that the team is biased in his favour, rather that his feedback and, I believe, more frequent presence during the car´s development (I may be wrong on that) could have swung design or development decisions in a way that favours his driving style. But I may be quite wrong.
    racecub, F1ang-o and Andyoak like this.
  9. Bus Stop Chicane

    Bus Stop Chicane Points Scorer

    Haha........good one.
    ExtremeNinja, RickD and Tacitus like this.
  10. Cookinflatsix

    Cookinflatsix Banned

    Ah, Mr Chicane

    Where have you being hiding all this time? I guess the thread title has compelled you to break cover

  11. Bus Stop Chicane

    Bus Stop Chicane Points Scorer

    I just find it funny that you can't stand the fact that Button has been beating Hamilton lately Cookin.

    You don't think Button is all that, yet he beat Hamilton last season. Therefore, is Hamilton not "all that"?

    Plus saying Hamilton has superior pace off the back of a comprehensive Button victory doesn't make any sense at all.

    Just for the record I never saw the race so it may not have been comprehensive, if it was closer I apologise.
    RickD likes this.
  12. Road of Bones

    Road of Bones MTC Mole Premium Contributor

    I think Jenson learned the hard way that in order to extract the best from himself, he needed to extract the best from those working around him - to this end he has built upon the success and status he attained with Brawn to galvanise the McLaren team around him.

    It seems clear that he got all the "playboy" stuff out of his system while at Benetton, at the same time learning the painful lesson that driving ability alone will not make a dog of a car suddenly start to purr. I think anybody who had watched him claw his way up the grid from 2002 to be chasing the Ferraris in 2004, were perfectly able to see there was a very good racer there - the frankly rather silly kerfuffle over his contract negotiations during this time may have coloured many people's opinion of him however, and the impotent Honda Earth Cars of 2007 & 2008, along with the arrival of a certain young Englishman, further masked his potential from general view, and in many respects he got written off as a "never likely to be" man.

    I think this overall view of him still managed to stick, even throughout his title-winning campaign, leading to an awful lot of frankly ludicrous "he didn't deserve it" and "my granny could've won in that car" comments (which still make me furious, as nobody wins a WDC without a good car and a lot of determination and ability).

    I, for one, am not in the least bit surprised that Jenson has slotted in perfectly at McLaren - he has a fearsome personal motivation and work ethic (triathlons for fun??), and for those of us not bedazzled by Lewis' explosion into F1, a clear and steely ability as a racing driver.

    Don't get me wrong: even as a Button fan, I still think Lewis is probably the most talented F1 pilot there has ever been. I think all he really lacks is the experience and sense of perspective that a tougher climb up the grid may have given him - it is easy to forget that he suddenly had everything he ever wanted at a very young age (millions in the bank, a dream job, celebrity girlfriend, WDC in his second year, feted as the second coming of Ayrton, slayer of Alonso, etc...), and who could blame him for wanting to explore some of the perks that being a stupendously-talented racing driver bring?

    All the conspiracy theorists who blame McLaren or Whitmarsh for sabotaging Lewis' prospects, or favouring Jenson over him, are missing the point completely - the only thing affecting Lewis' chances is Lewis himself. If he parked the perks and spent more time applying the lessons of Vettel, Schumacher, Alonso & Button and built his team around him, then he would be utterly unstoppable.
    Perhaps it is a good thing for the rest of the grid that he hasn't grasped this (yet) - but when he eventually does, beware of the backlash!
    ExtremeNinja, Clinton, RickD and 10 others like this.
  13. KekeTheKing

    KekeTheKing Banned Supporter

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    Well said RoB.

    There's a lot to take into account with the Hamilton/Button partnership, most importantly is the very different stages of their careers and experience levels.

    It's pretty clear that Jenson is the cagey veteran who has seen it all and is not intimidated by anything. Lewis is still learning to deal with some of the curveballs that F1 can throw at you.
  14. Cookinflatsix

    Cookinflatsix Banned

    I have started to see Buttons particular set of talents, the consistency and the ability to use his vast experience and not make many mistakes

    As far as working the team the media etc it's another string to his bow that he has added over time

    It will make for a good battle against Lewis who at this stage in his career really only has his fearsome pace on his side

    Yes last race and some others Button is faster but for me that's not the natural order and is more about car setup etc, stuff that should work better for Lewis as time goes on

    Next race will tell us a lot about where they stand relative to each other and to Vettel and Webber, if Button gets pole I will be impressed by his pace
  15. Il_leone

    Il_leone Champion Elect

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    This is what Autosport covered last week in that people felt Button still did not gain enough credit for his 2009 win and he still needed to prove a point to say he is a deserved world champion. Hence he got his manager Richie Goddard to speak to Whitmarsh after BRazil to angle an opportunity. Whitmarsh off course was still think Kimi would sign and when he realised for less money he would get a driver more motivated than Kimi still then he put the offer to Button.

    Button did not even bother with MErcedes counter offer once a Mclaren deal was on the table

    So now suddenly after 2011 people are marvelling at Button being a world class driver and how he managed to make sure he does not implode the same way Alonso did from the intensity of Hamilton.

    One interesting point about Turkey 2010 after the save fuel row is the way they both handled the situation...Lewis obviously a bit mad having been caught napping about thinking the race was his aggressively repassed Button and showed his displeasure post race

    Button having told to save fuel a few laps before was not expecting Hamilton to be slow and decided to seize his chance but afterwards got the message save fuel and decided to deal internally behind the garage and mentioning "TEAM ORDERS" post race

    They are both competitive animals... Lewis as we all know never likes to be told not race before

    Sometimes Lewis' speaks his mind attitude when he talks about the car failing and not simply good enough does not endear him well to the hard working engineers who slogged to build the car.

    Button after 2010 gradually caught onto this to not slaughter his crew in such animated manner and throw toys out of the pram and keep it behind closed doors. This is something Schumacher was very good at.

    Lewis' relationship with Nicole back on again. I hope this time there is no soap opera for him because it will become a serious distraction and the joke of the paddock
    RickD likes this.
  16. riskitall

    riskitall Points Scorer

    ppl need to calm down.lewis just was slow off the line coz he lacked grip.
    how many more times do you reckon thatll happen this season?
    now if button had of overtaken lewis halfway through the race by being faster,or because hamiltons tyres had of worn out,then you might be onto something.
    but that didnt happen,and i think thats the only reason lewis didnt win,that slow start.in clean air im sure hamilton would have been just as fast as jenson was in clean air,so the bad start cost him,then the bad luck he had later in the race.
    but i expect lewis to get pole on saturday,and get off to a good start on sunday,then we'll see what happens.
    but in sundays race i thought lewis looked after his tyres well and his only mistake was the bad start.
    also didnt button win a race before lewis in 2010 and lewis win a race before button in 2011?
    and lewis beat button in 2010 and button beat lewis in 2011.so so far the driver that hasnt won the first race has gone on to beat the other driver over a season.
    F1ang-o and Fenderman like this.
  17. Jos the Boss

    Jos the Boss Champion Elect

    Ok neck on the line, Lewis to beat Jenson in malaysia simply cus he wants revenge. It's like at the 'ring last year when webber got past him at the last corner and he had him back straight away, he is just waiting for the first chance he can before he has revenge, but unlike senna prost, I think they won't fall out... unless they come together at suzuka at the chicane and turn one as one of them wasn't out yet!
    Fenderman likes this.
  18. liloyster

    liloyster Rookie

    Hi im new here. Does anyone think Jenson compromises quali setup for the race, while Lewis sets up more for quali. Due to DRS lowering 7th gear can make you hit the limiter much earlier in quali, but during the race will be an advantage. Im no expert but im sure there are other ways in which you can benefit a driver in quali but can hurt race performance.
  19. Cookinflatsix

    Cookinflatsix Banned

    Hi liloyster

    Yes I believe this is correct. Both drivers will use tactics such as different setups looking to maximise their preferred strategys chance, gearing ratios would be a big candidate

    What I would say is that come race day if a bad start hampers this strategy then the drivers team should be prepared to change the strategy. It did not look like anyone on Lewis' side was interested in changing his strategy to attempt to beat Button. Once Button was obviously uncatcheable maybe he should have been switched to a 3 stop or something else instead of just pit after Button further messing his race up

    Hindsight works well though LOL
    F1ang-o likes this.
  20. Viscount

    Viscount Pole Sitter Contributor

    Whilst a higher grid spot is beneficial, the race is far more important so I don't think either driver would compromise their race setup just for a better qualifying setup. How well each driver individually sets their car up for the race may make a difference though.
  21. Cookinflatsix

    Cookinflatsix Banned

    If you plan to qualify on pole and then control the race from the front on a hypothetical circuit where there is not much overtaking chances then it would not be a strange tactic

    If you then lost P1 on the first corner you might look glum afterwards
    Mezzer, F1ang-o and racecub like this.
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