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Idiotic Component penalties

Discussion in 'Formula One Discussion' started by Batman, Jul 8, 2017.

  1. Batman

    Batman Points Scorer

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    I'm with Webber on this. These component penalties are ruining the show. I'm not even going to bother watching tomorrow's race. It would have been nice to see a race between Hamilton and Vettel. But that's not going to happen. It wouldn't even surprise me if this gearbox issue was caused by the rear-ending that Vettel did in the last race. It certainly can damage a street cars gearbox.

    Webber wants end to Formula 1 grid penalties for component changes

     
    Fenderman likes this.
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  3. Rutherford

    Rutherford Rookie

    Vettel is likely to have caused the damage to Hamiltons gearbox... ROFL

    No. Simply no. Driving over curbs and bumps on the surface at 200+ kph does more damage as this is done over an extended period of time.
     
  4. Batman

    Batman Points Scorer

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    Whether that was the cause or not is irrelevant.

    The point here is that these grid penalties ruin the racing.
     
  5. Rutherford

    Rutherford Rookie

    No, they usually make it more exciting as the driver in the faster car has to pass drivers in slower cars who try to defend their position to the best of their abilities. This so far has created some interesting battles.
    Additionally, most drivers suffer a reliability related grid penalty over the course of the season so that it is balanced out at the end. However, this also depends on the track, of course it's more difficult to overtake in Monaco than in Austria.
    Thus, I wouldn't necessarily agree that it ruins a race, but it does ruin the championship battle as a whole in a way.

    If I were you, I wouldn't miss the race, it shouldn't be too difficult for Hamilton to pass the cars in Austria. ;)
     
  6. F1Brits_90

    F1Brits_90 Pole Sitter

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    the problem is that, this is absolutely necessary because yes if we could trust the teams to stick to the 4 engines a season & gearbox every 6 races we would get rid of the penalties, but we cant just like the resource restriction agreement, which was an unmitigated disaster where red bull spent 2 yr budget in 1yr because it was voluntary not enforced. we all know that if penalties are gone then they will be a new powerunit & gearbox every grand prix. pushing already unsustainable costs even higher
     
  7. siffert_fan

    siffert_fan Too old to watch the Asian races live. Contributor

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    And, since the driver would undeniably be the beneficiary of the team putting in an engine that produces vastly more power but can only survive two race meetings, exempting the driver from the penalty would be to impose a de facto penalty on all of those drivers that DID abide by the rules.

    BTW, who determines if a part failure was the result of something "beyond the control of the driver"?Perhaps the driver's style (corner cutting, treating the throttle as an on/off switch etc) contributed to the failure.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2017
  8. The Pits

    The Pits Harumph. Again. Valued Member

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    Or they stuffed it backwrds into the barriers...
     
  9. Batman

    Batman Points Scorer

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    No there wouldn't be because the FIA pegged the price of the engine supply contracts in the deal where the engine OEMs fended off the threat of the reintroduction of a low cost restricted V8 engine.

    So if Mercedes made an engine which only lasted 2 races, it would drive up costs for Mercedes, because the revenue they get on those engines would be pegged. The faster less reliable engines is cost neutral to everyone except engine OEMs.
     
  10. F1Brits_90

    F1Brits_90 Pole Sitter

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    but we all know Mercedes & other teams Batman wouldn't build stuff for strength they do it for speed & reliability, the less miles on all compotions. so if they could they would change because whats another 20/30m when your already spending 250m
     
  11. Greenlantern101

    Greenlantern101 Super Hero And All Round Good Guy Contributor

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    I think any component changes (beyond the permitted number) should have a penalty. A grid penalty is not the answer, it is nothing to do with the driver. The solution is to deduct constructors points and impose fines.
     
    Batman and Titch like this.
  12. TR

    TR Rookie

    I agree. I guess one question is what to do when teams run out of constructor points. (McLaren) Go into negative points?

    If people insist on having penalties that effect the driver, (to avoid teams ignoring WCC for the WDC, and I'm not convinced they would) take points from both driver and constructor. It would at least leave individual races unharmed.
     
  13. Greenlantern101

    Greenlantern101 Super Hero And All Round Good Guy Contributor

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    I think if the team had zero points they would just impose a fine.
     
  14. FB

    FB Not my cup of cake Valued Member

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    I wasn't going to get drawn on this but I shall.

    The reason for the rules on how long components last is about controlling costs. If there was a free for all with the rich teams simply throwing engines and gearboxes in to cars willy nilly whilst the rest of the grid struggled round with older units which don't perform as well costs would rise astronomically as the smaller teams would have to follow suit simply to stand still.

    The only people who benefit from having new components fitted to the cars are the drivers, hence it is reasonable and rational that any sanction hits them. You could fine the teams as well but with no punishment for the driver I suspect the teams who want to win most would take a fine on the chin and add it to their budget.

    I shall also address the elephant in the room. I can't help but feel that if this penalty had been applied to Vettel for the Austrian race that this post would never have seen the light of day.
     
  15. Greenlantern101

    Greenlantern101 Super Hero And All Round Good Guy Contributor

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    I think the top teams care about their constructors points very much. They wouldn't want to loose any.
     
  16. TR

    TR Rookie

    In fact, I think the top teams may care more about the WCC than the WDC.
     
  17. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives He's the master of going faster Contributor

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    Will it work the other way though? What if we have a really close fight for the WCC and then a driver throws it off the road and busts the gear box? Why should the team be penalised? Wasn't the part they built that failed.
     
  18. Road of Bones

    Road of Bones MTC Mole Premium Contributor

    If there were only a way to institute and police an effective budget cap - teams could replace as many components as they liked without penalty...until the budget ran out!
    This was/is never likely to happen in F1 though, so instead they have the component lifetime rules & penalties. It's the only system they could get to work.

    I agree with FB too - if this had been anyone other than #blessed, there probably wouldn't be this level of internet grumpitude.
     
  19. Greenlantern101

    Greenlantern101 Super Hero And All Round Good Guy Contributor

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    I don't think it's specifically about Lewis I think the interest is because this is affecting the championship leader battle. Thats not how I personally want a championship decided regardless of the driver.
     
  20. Andyoak

    Andyoak Race Winner

    I can't think of any season in the Bernie era where there haven't been accustations of the championship being rigged behind the scenes (anything to ensure it isn't decided until the last race - or two at worst). It's probably why many who like kicking balls struggle to understand F1 as a sport.
     
  21. Batman

    Batman Points Scorer

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    Quote from this week's autosport

     

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