Felipe Massa

Discussion in 'Drivers' started by HammydiRestarules, Jul 7, 2011.

  1. HammydiRestarules

    HammydiRestarules Di Resta fan :). Contributor

    Brilliant driver on his day but is he championship material?

    In 2008 he proved he was but thats only one occassion, plus that season the Ferrari TBH was a bit quicker and won more races that season. In 2009 he nearly suffered a career ending head-injury and since coming to back to the grid he hasn't really shown that promise he did in 2008.

    Don't get me wrong he's a driver i very much like, but i do wonder if he'll be a title challenger again for Ferrari season in season out or if he'll stay at Ferrari much longer?

    Whats your thoughts on Massa?
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  3. Incubus

    Incubus Champion Elect

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    I think Felipe's achille's heel resides firmly in his mindset.
    A good car, the feeling of being nurtured by his team, and being near or at the lead and he turns into a different driver.
    Any of the above that isn't quite there and he just doesn't seem able to surpass himself the way FA or LH do... one thing sticks in my mind, the way he outbraked himself going into the pit-lane in China last year and Alonso immediately saw the chance to squeeze past and barge him out of the way.
    You can't imagine Felipe being that ruthless. Yet that is precisely the kind of ruthlessness he has needed all along.
    He has to be far more ruthless than he is, and until he does he will always play second fiddle to Alonso, or come to think of it to to any of the top two or three drivers on the grid.

    One exception springs to mind: the way he outbraked Hamilton and took him on the outside at the start of the 2008 Hungarian GP. That was a brilliant manoeuvre and that was ruthless alright.
    But that was Massa being ruthless on that one occasion. Alonso and Hamilton display that kind of ruthless approach at pretty much EVERY RACE, and that's where Felipe comes short.
    slyboogy21 likes this.
  4. teabagyokel

    teabagyokel #dejavu Valued Member

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    I think Massa was another who got his chance and lost it for reasons that probably weren't his fault. But I maintain that Ferrari was better than that McLaren, and Massa should have been in the box seat.
    gethinceri likes this.
  5. Incubus

    Incubus Champion Elect

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    Yes, I also did think the Ferrari was the better car in both 2007 and 2008.
  6. gethinceri

    gethinceri Daniil Kvyat Fan. Contributor

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    I'm with TBY.
    In the same league as Irvine, Coulthard (to name but two) who had chances in cars/teams capable of winning championships but without the je ne sais quois to make it happen.
    F1ang-o likes this.
  7. mjo

    mjo Procrastinating Contributor

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    I think Mclaren was better in 07, though
  8. Slyboogy

    Slyboogy World Champion Contributor

    This guy one me over as a fan, I was wondering in 2006 what the hell Ferrari where doing sigining him, then gradually every season upto half of 2009 he just kept on improving, and what impressed me the most was, how he took the defeat in Brazil '08, would anyone else on the grid be as gracious as he was? Think about he lost in his home crowd, and the biggest blow to him was that it was the last lap and last corner, and got beat by one point. He was on fire in that season apart from the first 2 races.

    But then the team did nurture him, and the car development went in his favour and he made the most of it, sorry to all the Lewis Hamilton fans, but I really do think he deserved that title as much as Lewis Hamilton, he might have not have been the greatest talent, but he worked hard since he got his chance in 2006, won a grand prix's kept up with the legend in the second half, second season at Ferrari, won I think 3 or 4 grand prix's where the McLaren's were more competitive and reliable car.

    It is sad to see him in a decline, having Alonso as a team-mate with a major sponsor when you comeback into an area of uncertainty doesn't help, his first half of 2010 was good, I really thought he could challenge Alonso, then Hockenheim came, as a Massa fan, even a fan in general I was disgusted, but it happens...what made it worse was that it was for the lead.

    Now however I don't see him at the front end, Alonso is closer to him on Massa's favourite than Massa is to Alonso's just like it was back in 2007 and 2008.

    As Incubus says, he needs the "ruthlessness" aspect, he seems to be showing that this year, a little too late unfortunately.

    Another thing love his accent - "ees diffico fo sho, we not at the fwont, but we are in a goood pozeejon" :snigger:
    hammydigrassi and Incubus like this.
  9. Dave Aston

    Dave Aston Rookie

    I consider Massa an excellent Grand Prix driver, but I don't think he will win a championship as Alonso's teammate, Fernando is too fast and consistent. I don't know where else he could go to achieve this. I don't consider him in Vettel / Alonso / Hamilton's league. Performance wise, he reminds me a bit of Ralf Schumacher; inconsistent, but one who had days where he just seemed unbeatable. Maybe there was a narrower window for finding a setup, or a mental state, whereby he could pull everything together on a race weekend.

    He really helped Kimi at Brazil in 2007, who didn't really repay the favour the next year. I seem to recall Kimi being pretty brutal on the first lap at Spa in 2008, at a point when the title was becoming out of reach for him, but was very much alive for Felipe. I guess the very best out there are kind of ruthless. Regarding the second Ferrari seat, I think they should free it up, but I know they don't have a habit of using it to develop drivers. I'd love to see Kobayashi there. I still think they'll surprise everyone and take Webber for 2012...
    F1ang-o and Incubus like this.
  10. Incubus

    Incubus Champion Elect

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    I think it was a bit too close to be certain either way, especially because there were some tracks that favoured one car way better than others, and vice-versa.
    The tendency though was that the McLaren may have been more user-friendly, easier to set up and more nimble through twisty sections, but the Ferrari was almost certainly better on circuits with a high percentage of fast and flowing curves, such as Spa for example.
  11. Slyboogy

    Slyboogy World Champion Contributor

    I think Kimi returned the favour much more, he was still in the title challenege at Spa, he basically moved over in China, helped him in Fuji. And above all that, Massa when Kimi pitted in Brazil 07 was doing purples so Kimi had to up his game...hardly call that helping...
    Incubus likes this.
  12. Incubus

    Incubus Champion Elect

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    Absolutely Sly. Couldn't agree with you more.
    Having said that, did you look at your inbox you dozy git??? :whistle:
  13. Dave Aston

    Dave Aston Rookie

    Good point.
  14. Kimi helped Massa way more in 2008 than Massa did so for Kimi in 2007. So let's agree on that and set the record straight.

    One GP not mentioned was the final race in Brazil where Kimi was told not to risk tangling with Alonso for 2nd. Why? Because a tangle would risk one or both (ALO / RAI) non-finishing and given were Hamilton was (5th I think at the time), that would mean Hamilton would pick up one or two more spots to bring up his points haul more than otherwise. So that is why Kimi held station in 3rd and didn't have a go at Alonso.

    So that's 3 races Kimi helped Massa in 2008 (Fuji, China, Interlagos).

    Hope that record is now straightened.
  15. MCLS

    MCLS Anti F1 fan Valued Member

    How do you know that?
  16. Slyboogy

    Slyboogy World Champion Contributor

    Because he is Ray! :)

    Makes sense to me what he says, as if it's true we will never know
    TN23 likes this.
  17. MCLS

    MCLS Anti F1 fan Valued Member

    As this is a MASSA thread, I have split the posts off to the Raikkonen thread.
  18. Fair enough but we're discussing Massa and how Massa helped Raikkonen in 2007 and how he was helped back in return for his own WDC bid.

    In light of that, I don't think it was too much out of context. Massa benifited a lot from orders in 2008 and I was pointing out the races where those orders were applied.

    Cheers, MCLS. :)
  19. MCLS

    MCLS Anti F1 fan Valued Member

    Yeah, thats why the posts on that are here, I've just moved the posts on the Finnish newspaper over to his thread. :)
  20. :) Kool. Thanks MCLS.

    Now turning to Massa and to the present fully. Who on here thinks Ferrari left Massa out to dangle in the wind by leaving him out so long on old tyres? That cost Massa a clear cut 4th.

    Pathetic, no? (But Ferrari won the British Grand Prix...so who cares if Massa only finished 5th, eh? :snigger: )
  21. MCLS

    MCLS Anti F1 fan Valued Member

    Martin Brundle put it beatifully, Make sure Alonso is alright and then bring in the other guy.

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