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Crime and Punishment

Discussion in 'Formula One Discussion' started by Olivier, Jul 1, 2017.

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  1. No additional punishment is needed

    6
    25.0%
  2. Fine

    0
    0.0%
  3. Point penalty

    5
    20.8%
  4. Suspended race ban

    5
    20.8%
  5. Race ban

    8
    33.3%
  6. Multiple race ban

    0
    0.0%
  7. Bannned from the 2017 championship

    0
    0.0%
  8. Multi-year ban

    1
    4.2%
  9. Community hours

    1
    4.2%
  10. Another (harsher) penalty

    2
    8.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. teabagyokel

    teabagyokel #bringbackmaldo Valued Member

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    No penalty was an appropriate response to the original condition.

    Regardless of leaders creating ideal conditions for themselves - which they are employed to do - they must at some point slow down to ensure they do not pass the Safety Car. Going slow up to the SC line would exacerbate the issues we saw with restarting.

    In particular, Hamilton came a whisker from getting a penalty for passing the line at the first restart. Ferrari should have communicated to their driver that Hamilton may slow down!
     
    racecub likes this.
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  3. FB

    FB Not my cup of cake Valued Member

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    Isn't the requirement of the VSC to achieve a certain speed between points, not too slowly or too fast? I suppose a driver could slow down below the max. speed under a VSC but it sort of defeats the object of trying to maintain a gap to the car behind (I appreciate this is a different situation to a full safety car).

    So what could be done and is F1 the only racing series which manages to create such problems? I don't recall similar problems in WEC or Formula E when the safety car comes out. Perhaps this is because the drivers are not "the best in the world" (sic).

    So how else could the situation be resolved? The drivers are informed that the safety car is coming in. There are two safety car lines. The lead driver must maintain the required distance to the safety car up to SCL1. After SCL1 the field then moves in to a VSC mode and Bernd Maylander has to get a wiggle on and get out of the way (SCL1 could be where the safety car usually pulls in). As soon as the drivers reach SCL2 the race is now green flagged and they get on with it.

    Either that or, as I suggested before, the lead driver maintains correct distance to the safety car until it pulls off and they do a full lap under the VSC but have a min/max time for each sector and if anyone drops below the min or goes over the max they have a drive through penalty. This would also allow the drivers to get their brakes and tyres closer to full operating temperatures.
     
  4. Incubus

    Incubus Champion Elect

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    How would that work on certain tracks though? Like Monaco which has at least two corners that are actually way slower at full racing speeds than the maximum VSC speed? (or did I misundestand the post, which is entirely possible)
     
  5. teabagyokel

    teabagyokel #bringbackmaldo Valued Member

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    I suspect it is a unique situation in Formula One due to the layout of the Baku City Circuit. The vast majority of Safety Car restarts at least have a braking zone between 'lights-off' and the start-finish line. Baku uniquely restarts on a full-on flat-out section, which is what made it difficult to judge. Hamilton had to play it safe after his warning from the team at the first restart.
     
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  6. Incubus

    Incubus Champion Elect

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    Precisely, but for all the headline-grabbing situation regarding the Vettel incident the procedure there is actually far riskier for the those towards the back of the pack. As Sainz was saying the other day it felt really quite dangerous during the re-start with drivers forced to either apply the throttle or the brakes according to whatever the car in front was doing and it would only take one driver misreading the situation to trigger a gigantic pile-up. F1 was lucky to get away without one so something probably needs altering about the re-starting procedure at Baku.
     
  7. FB

    FB Not my cup of cake Valued Member

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    I was suggesting a min/max time for each sector under the VSC rather than a fixed speed so at slow circuits like Monaco it wouldn't be a problem.
     
  8. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives I was never cool at school. Contributor

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    FB from my understanding of the VSC that is exactly what it is.

    The VSC has become very confusing due to the way it's portrayed by commentators and media alike. The idea that it freezes the race is a nonsense and gaps are always going to change. They are set delta times they must not exceed for each sector. So obviously variable and not 'like every car being on the same track on a scalextric' Mr Croft.

    Of course this doesn't help on a restart situation as we'd have the same slowing down (if not worse) by the leader so they could get up to full speed without breaching the delta.

    A VSC restart works better because it can come anywhere at anytime - although as we've seen it can lead to slow cars if a driver misses the go signal - hence we should have. a count down by race control as they do in Formula E.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2017
    FB likes this.
  9. TR

    TR Rookie

    You claimed that he needed to drive at the speed he did not to catch up to safety car. That is not true. If he maintained the speed as on the previous lap he clearly would not catch up to the safety car.

    No shit Sherlock. The behavior as exhibit by Hamilton has been standard practice at SC restarts for years. So clearly, it is within (the current interpretation of) the rules. Hence why we are discussing if the rules/procedures need to be changed.
     
  10. FB

    FB Not my cup of cake Valued Member

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    Is there a minimum time for a sector under the VSC though? Perhaps this could be a specific rule for restarts after a safety car period.
     
  11. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives I was never cool at school. Contributor

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    That's a very good question. There is a minimum distance you can be behind another car under the safety car so logically you'd say there should be a minimum on VSC.

    Didn't Hamilton get a penalty for going to slow into the pits under the VSC?
     
  12. olegg

    olegg Race Winner

    you misunderstood what I wrote.
    And not closely watched race if you do not remember that the team warned Hamilton
    about how he almost overtook safety-car when there was first restart in the race and
    need to let go even further
     
  13. Greenlantern101

    Greenlantern101 Super Hero And All Round Good Guy Contributor

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    He does the apology thing well. I wonder if he uses this look when doing it.

    Screen Shot 2017-07-06 at 15.43.45.png

    Vettel said: "It was the wrong move, to drive alongside him and hit his tyre.

    "Am I proud of it? No. Can I take it back? No. Do I regret it? Yes. I had the impression I was fouled. That was wrong. I wasn't happy, I overreacted."
     
  14. olegg

    olegg Race Winner

    Finally Vettel apologized.
    But those who was defending Vettel and has already insulted Hamilton
    unlikely will to apologize
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2017
  15. cider_and_toast

    cider_and_toast Everything in moderation Staff Member Premium Contributor

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    It's over. The decision is in. Vettel said sorry.

    Time to move on.
     
  16. Olivier

    Olivier Race Winner

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  17. racecub

    racecub Champion Elect

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    Just written a poem about this. It's in the F1 poetry thread. it's called, 'Don't be mean on Vettel'

    It's poetry. So don't shoot me!
     
  18. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives I was never cool at school. Contributor

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    Yeah. Not going to happen. It might here on CTA but in the press? Nah. Especially in the midst of a German Driver vs British Driver championship battle. It will be mentioned in every article written from now on until about July 2018.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2017
    Bill Boddy and cider_and_toast like this.

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