Big Money Or Championship Wins?

Discussion in 'Formula One Discussion' started by Angel, Jun 21, 2018.

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  1. A huge pay packet?

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    11.1%
  2. A car capable of winning the championship?

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    88.9%
  1. Angel

    Angel Rookie Supporter

    I can't drive at car, period. Never even had a lesson let alone passed a test, and I'd still take the championship car! I'm not sure they'd want me to, but I would.

    Mr Horner (bless him) says that Ricciardo would be 'bold' (for that read crazy) to join a team he's currently lapping. Should we all point out to him that the Red Bull has also been lapping the Toro Rosso lately which has in it the engine they're likely to be using next year?

    Oh I know, they'll have an upgraded version, but you get my drift.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
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  3. Ruslan

    Ruslan Test Driver

    I would be tempted to take the 20 million and go to McLaren. It really depends on what you determine from their engineering program and sponsorship arrangements.

    DR can spend the next couple of season fighting with Hamilton/Vettel/Verstappen to ensure that he deserves equal treatment (which may not happen), always operating with significant internal pressure, and then after 2 or 3 years, may still get dumped.....or he can be the #1 man at Mercedes for a long time to come, being the hammer instead of the nail, and perhaps around 2021, when the budget caps come in, can start getting some wins in. Much better environment than that offered at Mercedes/Ferrari/Red Bull.

    On the other hand, he will be winning races now with either of those three top teams. So...better life and more money.....or more wins?
     
  4. My friend, I think that he's there to win and McLaren doesn't look like a very strong team at the moment. we've had this discussion many times before but what really strikes me is that fact that someone with Ricciardo's talent (or Alonso's, for that matter) cannot find a seat in one of the top teams because at both of them he would disturb the current pecking order. Apparently Ferrari has already told Kimi that his services won't be needed for net year, Bottas hasn't really set the world on fire, Ricciardo should have the option to go to either Ferrari or to Mercedes, but he hasn't. I think that he'll stay at RBR (and never become WDC)
     
  5. Ruslan

    Ruslan Test Driver

    Welcome to the forum Scipio (or is Publius). I always knew the guy as Scipio Africanus.

    I am a big fan of Daniel Ricciardo....and I think he is one of the best racers out there. On the other hand, I think Hamilton/Vettel/Verstappen are just a shade faster. Being on a team with any of them will always be a fight to prove that you are good enough, and I have my doubts he will win that fight. So I fear if he ends up at Mercedes/Ferrari/Red Bull....he will never really be a co-#1....but always a 1 1/2 and eventually a #2. I note your comment "...he'll stay at RBR (and never become WDC)."

    I am not sure going to McLaren is the answer, but at least there he would be #1 or co #1. That has to be more satisfying in so many ways.

    I think he is in a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. What we really need is a F1 series that more than three teams are competitive (and some seasons it is only really one competitive team).
     
  6. Angel

    Angel Rookie Supporter


    Publius you're here :wave: Good to see you my friend!
     
  7. Angel

    Angel Rookie Supporter

    You're right, Kimi's replacement has pretty much already been found. Mercedes won't take anyone who might upset Hamilton by beating him too often, so where else are there any other good seats? I mean other than the one he already has. Trouble is he probably knows they're looking to focus on Verstappen, that's probably why he started to make noises about being available to go elsewhere in the first place.
     
  8. I think that Leclerc is exceptionally good but IMHO he's too young to go to Ferrari, he will have too much pressure, much more than at any other team. IMHO Ferrari should send him for a year or two at Haas.

    I'm not a die-hard Ricciardo fan but seeing his talent wasted in a second tier team makes me cringe, what a waste
     
  9. :wave:
     
  10. Angel

    Angel Rookie Supporter


    See I think Leclerc will be fine. Yes he's still young but he won't be under pressure to win at Ferrari really will he? We all know what his job will be there, I'm sure he does too.

    Ricciardo is a victim of his talent arriving in F1 where there is no real room for it sadly. Red Bull like the young and exciting drivers, he's already less exciting than Max in their view it seems and he knows it. I do feel bad for him in that way but that unfortunately is motor racing, it's a brutal sport in many ways.
     
  11. what I like about that family, apart from military glory, is the fact that they had great names, Africanus, Aemilianus (from Elimia, which incidentially is the region were I come from), Nasica (big nose, I don't have a big nose though), you can pick the one you like best

    Anyway, talking of Ricciardo, I don't think that Verstappen is better than him, I think that it's the other way round, I guess that good old Jacques Villeneuve has a point: Verstappen is making so many mistakes because Ricciardo is generally faster than him and he struggles to keep up. I'm not sure if over a whole season Ricciardo would be able to compete at the same level as Hamilton/Vettel/Alonso but I guess that he wouldn't be far behind. IMHO Ricciardo won't join Ferrari because Vettel is a afraid of him and he won't join Mercedes because Hamilton is afraid of him. That to me means that Ricciardo is highly regarded by his peers
     
  12. IMHO Leclerc will be Ferrari's future after Vettel, I fear that the pressure on Leclerc might be too much
     
  13. Angel

    Angel Rookie Supporter

    That my friend depends on how long Vettel wants to carry on racing. Not that I'm saying I have a scoop and he's retiring, but they all do it eventually.
     
  14. Il_leone

    Il_leone Race Winner

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    F1Brits_90 Angellica

    It is probably down to naivety on DC's part. He made the move to try and secure his F1 future on the belief that Williams were going to pair Mansell and Hill for 1995 and he went off to Mclaren to sign for 1995 and 1996. It was only when Williams turned around and said we have a contract on him for 1995 that it went to the CRB who voted in Williams ' favour.

    It was partly down to Mansell making DC think he was going to be only a test driver at Williams.
    --------------------

    I remember how Senna tried to convince Williams to sign him by offering himself for "free" for 1993 when Mansell wanted $23m allegedly but they were both shafted because Prost was working behind the scenes already to establish himself as No 1.

    There is less sympathy towards Mansell because he had the best car and having won the world title , how would you want to defend it in the best car for 1993?

    Hill is another one you have to shake your head as his stock actually grew in 1997 because Williams were struggling to develop the car without him and Newey went to Mclaren and suggested Ron should sign Hill. Ron not convinced Hill had the motivation and consistency offered him $2m base plus $1m per win which was the same offer to Hakkinen and Coulthard. Hill rejected the offer thinking he had been insulted and went to Jordan instead for more money.

    It was rather an odd decision given Newey and Mclaren were improving in 1997 so would have been a front runner
     
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  15. Bill Boddy

    Bill Boddy Professional layabout Premium Contributor

    IMHO Ricciardo should stay where he is. Newey's car is already close behind Mercedes and Ferrari and this year Honda have improved. It would not be beyond possibility that next year Honda will be close enough for the chassis to make the difference. Renault should improve as well but can McLaren improve sufficiently to be in with a shout?
     
  16. Il_leone

    Il_leone Race Winner

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    For Ricciardo to join Ferrari, it will be Marchionne's call and I can see the only they will go with LeClerc is if Vettel starts dominating the championship from here onwards so the decision will go in Seb's favour. However who is to say LeClerc won't show Vettel with a real turn of speed because he has adapted himself very quickly at Sauber and is showing up Ericsson

    If Vettel is less convincing then I see Ricciardo being put in to make a stronger partnership but it will also weaken Vettel's position as No1 in the team that I think would push Vettel into considering moving over to Mercedes if Hamilton does not sign his contract

    As for going to Mclaren - Ricciardo whilst he will be No1.. does he really want to jump into the fire that is Mclaren currently. I expect Renault engines to improve to help Mclaren move forward but it is clear there are leadership issues and the chassis is not as great which may handicap him
     
  17. Il_leone

    Il_leone Race Winner

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  18. Angel

    Angel Rookie Supporter

    Seeing Hill break down on the way to the grid in Australia in 1997 was a bad moment. Then in Hungary he almost won the race until the car started to break down on the last lap. Even as a Villeneuve fan I felt a little bad for him that day. Though my ex husband blamed me for my driver beating his! Like I had any input to that!!
     
  19. Ruslan

    Ruslan Test Driver

    Well, as much as I dislike Verstappen....I do think he has the intensity and raw speed that gives him an edge over Ricciardo. When he has his act together, he does regularly outqualify Ricciardo (for example...the last four races of last season. Even this season he has outqualified him 4 to 3). Lately, he has not had his act together, but that will change.

    Most likely Ricciardo will stay at Red Bull.....but I do not think that going to McLaren would be just a decision trading off $$$ for wins. There is a qualify of life issue here also.
     
  20. siffert_fan

    siffert_fan Too old to watch the Asian races live. Contributor

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    Hamilton is showing that it is possible to have both: multiple championships due to being in an overwhelmingly dominant car and then being (purportedly) offered 120m (!!!!!!) to drive for them through 2021! Unbelievable!

    Merc could easily drop Hamilton, hire DR (far a LOT less), and still get the same results! I do not understand the corporate mind set.
     
  21. Il_leone

    Il_leone Race Winner

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    siffert_fan Ferrari hired Kimi Raikkonen for $150m and he was paid $28m for not driving for another team despite never having won the championship

    The reason if Ferrari wanted him to replace Schumacher then surely he should be paid something similar to Schumacher - you can thank his management team for sorting out such contract

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    You would have to pay a similar salary to get Vettel anyway and right now he is still one of the best drivers in the world. Why won't they hire Ricciardo is because he does not have the leverage to demand such a contract with Mercedes
     

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