Backmarkers

[landogeorgelewis1]

Well with all thats gone on between Vettel and Karthikeyan it has raised an issue. Should Backmarkers compromise their own race to let drivers faster than them through? Even though the faster car that is coming through isn't really able to challenge the person infront of him and isn't really getting challenged from behind.

I reckon Backmarkers really do need to be shown alittle more respect from front running drivers. As like those at the front their in a race against a team-mate or opposition of a similar speed! I really don't think that the backmarkers should compromise their own race just to let a faster car coming through can lap them with ease, meaning that they've had to give up the chance of getting an opponent/rival that they thought they'd be able to get past on that lap. For me I really don't like the Blue-flags thing it just makes a mockery of racing and i'd be more than happy to see the back of them.

So should backmarkers compromise their own races, to suit faster drivers coming through?

 

[Brogan]

In most cases there should be time to move out of the way without compromising their own race.
They are allowed to pass two blue flags without yielding/moving over but if they pass a third then they risk a penalty.

 

[teabagyokel]

I am going to come out in support of the blue flag.

Remember the 2001 Monaco Grand Prix? David Coulthard, the pole sitter (1:17.430), was forced to start from the back. On lap 8 he came up behind Arrows' Enrique Bernoldi, who had qualified 20th (1:21.336). He passed the Brazilian in the pitstops on lap 42.

Now a Formula One regulation has to cater for all the tracks in the calendar and modern F1 cars. I reckon the Monaco Grand Prix could become a complete farce if the leader tootled on until he reached the cars that are about 4 seconds down - i.e. Caterham, and then was unable to pass.

I think, with the difficulty in overtaking in modern F1 where DRS-zones are not considered, removing the blue flag makes the race win a complete lottery; basically you have to catch your lap down opponent at the DRS detection point to succeed.

I'd rather the race of someone who is not going to be involved in the Championship points divvy at the end of the race be ruined than the race of the potential winner being baulked by an effective non-runner, and it would lead to an incentive for the "Big Four" to politically act in a way which would endanger the very participation of the backmarkers.

So I'm sticking with blue flags.

 

[EvilWhippet]

I think the front runners have just got to be aware of how much track there is. Narain had no room to his left, and Vettel to his right. Vettel had most of the track to his right.

I dont' think they should get rid of blue flags though. I don't like the idea of close results being decided by stubborn backmarkers getting in the way at places like Monaco. The leaders fight should be with each other.

 

[landogeorgelewis1]

Interesting views guys and i fully understand where your coming from.

However Backmarkers should recieve more respect than their get. Their themselves are doing a job, just like the front runners.

However i do agree with you at places such as Monaco, Singapore and Montreal it could be tricky to defend backmarkers as those tracks aren't really wide enough.

 

[EvilWhippet]

The quicker they get put of the way of the front runners the sooner the front runners will be away into the distance and not impeding their race. I don't see what they'd gain from fighting to keep the leaders behind them?

 

[teabagyokel]

However Backmarkers should recieve more respect than their get. Their themselves are doing a job, just like the front runners.

I do think that backmarkers should get more respect from the frontrunners, especially with respect to cucumbers. However, I don't think that should come at the expense of the race at the front of the grid.

 

[landogeorgelewis1]

The main question really should be that all of the teams should get together and discuss this and make some ground rules. Because at this moment in time we have Front running teams calling the backmarkers idiots and the backmarker teams wanting to be treated with respect. If something was put into place that the teams from both ends of the grid can agree on then we shouldn't get these problems every other race.

 

[RasputinLives]

You have to keep the blue flags I'm afraid but I do agree that a bit more respected is needed for the poor guys in the slower cars. Its interesting that with the 2 incidents with Karthekeyen and the two top drivers it was the top driver who has experienced running round in a car that was hopelessly off the pace that was quick to say it was Narain's fault and the one that hasn't who lost his rag.

I guess if the top runners all spent a weekend running round in an HRT they may have a bit of sympathy. Having said that there can be some terrible backmarkers who need to learn to know whats around them. I don't think Narain is one of them though

 

[teabagyokel]

The problem with that is the vastly different starting points. Politically, the frontrunners see the backmarkers as the disposable jackasses preventing them running three cars. The backmarkers, meanwhile, obviously defend their right to exist. So I don't think there is too much overlap of their intentions.

 

[Johnny Carwash]

Maybe there could be a more fundamental approach to back markers, by having the FIA changing the rules on qualifying from 107% to 100%. This may mean that some cars don't qualify, but it will take away cars being lapped 5 or 6 times in a race.

 

[teabagyokel]

Maybe there could be a more fundamental approach to back markers, by having the FIA changing the rules on qualifying from 107% to 100%. This may mean that some cars don't qualify, but it will take away cars being lapped 5 or 6 times in a race.

And Mr Hamilton rejoiced mightily!

Its interesting that with the 2 incidents with Karthekeyen and the two top drivers it was the top driver who has experienced running round in a car that was hopelessly off the pace that was quick to say it was Narain's fault and the one that hasn't who lost his rag.

Don't you mean it wasn't Narain's fault?

 

[Brogan]

Maybe there could be a more fundamental approach to back markers, by having the FIA changing the rules on qualifying from 107% to 100%.

Umm, surely only 1 car would qualify then?

 

[Johnny Carwash]

Maths was never my strong point.

 

[landogeorgelewis1]

Maths was never my strong point.

Your not the only one!

Maybe a 105% rule would be better?

 

[Brogan]

The 107% time is an interesting point though.
Who originally decided to set it to that all those years ago?
And why not review it and change it to e.g. 105%, or even less?

Of course that brings us back to the issue of expecting new teams to be able to compete on equal terms without decades of experience, testing, data, etc. and no in-season testing.

 

[Viscount]

I'm in favour of blue flags. I do think passing cars should respect the cars they're lapping, but backmakers do have to at least be sensible about where they let cars through. If they simply move off the racing line on a straight and slow down slightly, cars can easily pass.

Whilst Vettel's puncture may have been his own fault, Karthikeyan chose to let Hamilton and Vettel through at the double apex Turns 7 & 8 where he ended up on the wet curbs & soaked astro almost losing the car as both Hamilton & Vettel came through. Vettel may have squeezed Karthikeyan, but Karthikeyan created that whole situation when he could have just let the 2 cars through on the short straight before Turn 7.

 

[landogeorgelewis1]

The 107% time is an interesting point though.
Who originally decided to set it to that all those years ago?
And why not review it and change it to e.g. 105%, or even less?

Of course that brings us back to the issue of expecting new teams to be able to compete on equal terms without decades of experience, testing, data, etc. and no in-season testing.

Maybe when deciding to let new teams come into F1, the FIA should look into promoting teams who have been sucessful and have experience from the GP2 ranks.

 

[Fenderman]

Posted in the "War of Words" thread but since the discussion has been moved. As it's relevant rather than repeat myself I'll quote myself

"I think it's unreasonable to expect backmarkers to compromise their own race by getting out of the way in a series of corners. Any half decent racer knows that a compromised line into one corner ruins the run through the rest. Patience and reading the behaviour of another driver are other virtues of race craft and therefore provide further opportunities for a driver to demonstrate skills and attributes. I am reminded of the quaint epithet "haste makes waste". That was certainly shown to be a truism on Sunday."

It is not uncommon for the top flight drivers and cars to find themselves getting lapped, usually due to car problems or, as in that famous GB Grand Prix where Hamilton lapped everyone, the conditions. So it's not just about the minnows running at the back. Indeed, Trulli could be said to have been a midfield runner when the term "Trulli train" crept into use.

The bottom line is that there should be a reasonable level of give and take and the return of some etiquette. It's interesting that we have another thread running discussing safety because of the over-use of the safety car in wet weather races. There is a commonality here in that as the cars get safer to be in when they crash and the circuits get safer because of the acres of run off, etiquette has almost disappeared from the racing vocabulary. Old geezers like me will hark back to the days when drivers gave each other that extra bit of space and consideration because they feared almost certain debilitating injury or death if they didn't.

I'm not really sure what the answer is. We're already getting sick of over regulation and knee jerk stewardship but somehow "due care and consideration" has to be brought back into driver's education.

 

[Slyboogy]

Well backmarkers do deserve some respect, but as they say, to earn respect you must give respect, and I have to say, some backmarkers are down right rude and take a sector or 2 to get out of the way when they are in clean air and racing absolutely nobody.

However it is a shame when drivers are in a fight with other cars for points and lose out for having to give way, but that's the way it is, otherwise we would be complaining the other way round, "the fight for the lead was ruined by a the car getting lapped ruining a drivers race".