Aircraft security procedures will have to change

Discussion in 'Gravel Trap' started by Brogan, Mar 26, 2015.

  1. siffert_fan

    siffert_fan Too old to watch the Asian races live. Contributor

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    Maybe ground station radar readings are recorded?
     
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  3. Izumi

    Izumi Points Scorer

    What's going on with the Boeing 737 Max series? Technical issues? Reports are emerging on compromises on made design necessary to fit engines on. They were quite low to the ground. Moving them, experts are suggesting, aerodynamics were thusly affected. China grounded Max 8 fleet until investigation on Ethiopian disaster clarifies causes for the crash (for Boeing second one in recent years).
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  4. Olivier

    Olivier Race Winner

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    From what I've read MCAS is at the core of the issue. Very early to say but as a person with flying anxiety, this development and the fact that Air Canada will have 50 of these airplanes by 2021 really freaks me out.

    https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-...aracteristics-augmentation-system-mcas-jt610/
     
  5. Izumi

    Izumi Points Scorer

    If it makes you feel better, that makes two of us. I do not suffer from anything, but sitting in one of those for me is greater than 50%, which could be bad news. For business related trips it will be hard to avoid them.
     
    Olivier likes this.
  6. BradMan

    BradMan Rookie

    Could be...

    Ethiopian Airlines crashed Boeing 737 'black box' found
     
  7. BradMan

    BradMan Rookie

    +1
     
  8. BradMan

    BradMan Rookie

    I've got stories to tell of my flying anxieties...

    To makes it worse, even the pilots were unaware of this MCAS
     
  9. Bill Boddy

    Bill Boddy Professional layabout Premium Contributor

    It sounds as though Boeing could have problems; people simply do not trust what they say. They could even finish up by withdrawing the plane after the problem is fixed as happened with the De Havilland Comet.

    BBC ON THIS DAY | 19 | 1954: 'Metal fatigue' caused Comet crashes
     
  10. Izumi

    Izumi Points Scorer

    Germany has banned Boeing 737 MAX 8 flights in its airspace following last Sunday's Ethiopian Airlines tragedy near Addis Ababa. Hanover-based European travel operator Tui says it has also halted flights using the plane.
     
  11. sobriety

    sobriety Pole Sitter

    They're banned from UK airspace too, and Singapore and Australia I think.

    The civil aviation authorities are effectively grounding the fleet. Which is a good thing, as two serious incidents in similar condtions with similar events in the first two years of operation points to either a serious design flaw, a serious flaw in the conversion of crews from the old models to the new, or to both.

    They should not be flying at all until the cause of both crashes has been fully determined and changes/lessons learned applied across the fleet.
     
  12. rufus_mcdufus

    rufus_mcdufus Champion Elect

    This could really hurt some airlines with a significant proportion of them. Doesn't sound like it's going to be an easy fix.
     
  13. Izumi

    Izumi Points Scorer

    I've read somewhere that until now passengers who already had tickets were refused by airline when they asked for transfer to a flight by a different type of aircraft.
     
  14. Angel

    Angel Pole Sitter Supporter

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    You can add Ireland and China to that list of countries who have banned them from their airspace.

    Ryanair apparently have a huge number on order so I heard. I wonder how they feel about that now. I wouldn't fancy to go on one and I think a lot of people will feel the same way.
     
  15. sobriety

    sobriety Pole Sitter

    I'm a Safety Engineer. I wouldn't fly on one just now.
     
    Olivier and cider_and_toast like this.
  16. Olivier

    Olivier Race Winner

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    :o
     
  17. Izumi

    Izumi Points Scorer

    I am not knowledgeable of a source credibility on this subject, but discussion in one paper evolved around this aircraft. It was alleged, aircraft was designed and launched in hurry to the market to offset Airbus products, and once engines had to be moved (they were too low to the ground), aerodynamics of the plane was upset, and now pilots do need software assistance to help them keep aircraft flying, instead stalling. Point is, there could be fundamental flaw in design "as it is," and if that is true, then series could require massive redesign from ground up. This could be setback for Boeing.

    Conclusion I take from it, for my next flight I will do something which haven't done ever, namely, asked on which aircraft am I booked and can you find something else, please?
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2019
  18. sobriety

    sobriety Pole Sitter

    Don't worry too much, the EU have grounded them too, in fact the only major aviation authority that hasn't grounded them is the FAA, who probably don't want to have to admit that they approved something unsafe if they don't absolutely have to.

    Once they're fixed, be it via engineering or human factors improvements, I'll be happy to get on one.
     
  19. Izumi

    Izumi Points Scorer

    In general terms I do not trust "quick fixes" to what is allegedly flawed design, yet I do suspect that's precisely what will happen. There will be some patching up in computer software, and there we go.

    Scrapping whole series will be financially unthinkable, and aviation safety agency will have to think very hard about this. Black boxes from last accident were recovered.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2019
  20. Dartman

    Dartman Points Scorer

    The FAA only had to approve the modifications, the 737 now is a much modified aircraft from the original 100/120 seat aircraft that attained its certificate of airworthiness, the Max version is nearly twice the seating capacity with engines of nearly 4 times the power and different wings, repositioned engines and a lengthened nose wheel, the seating configuration has gone from 2x 2 to 3x3 single aisle.
    These are just the mechanical changes, the cockpit displays and controls have changed from connected to fly by wire and LCD displays with multi screens and pages instead of individual dials for each sensor, it just ain't the same plane except for its name it was never recertified or certified as a new plane.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  21. Izumi

    Izumi Points Scorer

    Should have been with that many changes?
     
    rufus_mcdufus likes this.

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