Grand Prix 2018 United States Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Discussion in 'Formula One Discussion' started by Olivier, Oct 7, 2018.

  1. Mezzer

    Mezzer A fine chap if ever there was one. Contributor

    I was about to make exactly this point. Hamilton didn't really lose out due to the chop, he had wheel spin as commented on by a number of announcers which Kimi didn't due to the different tyres. If Kimi had lifted everyone would be saying what a smart manoeuvre it was on Hamilton's part ...
     
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  3. Izumi

    Izumi Test Driver

    F1Brits_90 Being out of reach for many, and being different is part of modern F1 DNA. Making it drinking Budweiser instead champagne is quickest way how to follow fate, now dead, famous US series. Fans of today are not the same who were watching F1 some odd 30 years ago. (I could be an exception.) CART is the thing of past, Indy numbers are not too great, NASCAR numbers are reported dropping. What makes Liberty think that F1 must emulate the same disastrous strategies? I could be wrong, but modern and prosperous F1 is not a series for Tier 2 group assembled from Williams, McLaren, Sauber, or FI. It is a clash of automotive titans.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
  4. F1Brits_90

    F1Brits_90 Race Winner

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    Izumi but i get your point i dont want it to be like BTCC where anyone can enter if you have. Enough money But their is tipping point of out of reach & a closed shop. As you always got ask the question let say in recent years 1 of Sauber Force India or Williams went bust. Is there anyone wanting to take there place. I dont believe there is weve had 4 - 6 free spots on that grid for 4 years now. Nobody even shown an interest. I feel we are getting to the point where even big manufacters dont want to go into F1 through cost. They might look at renault & think how do i justify to our board or sponsors spending £150m potentially a season. With no hope of victory Knowing that even with a perfect weekend we will finish 7th might just about stay on the lead lap if we get a safety car

    F1 is still just as prestigious now as it was 20yrs ago. Im estimating that force india probally have bigger budget now to scrape into the top 10 than mclaren did to win world championship with mika hakkinen.
     
  5. Il_leone

    Il_leone Champion Elect

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    the issue is currently there is collaboration between some of the smaller teams with the grandees so Ferrari have Haas and Sauber in their pocket whilst Mercedes have got Force India . That is not F1, we want to see the odd shock where the little teams upset the establishment
     
  6. Ruslan

    Ruslan Rookie

    I'll make a prediction after qualifying. ;)
     
  7. Ruslan

    Ruslan Rookie

    So....is the story Ferrari had an advantage until the installed a second sensor...then Mercedes had an advantage until they closed their wheels? Is this the cutting edge of automotive engineering?
     
  8. looks like it is
     
  9. Ruslan

    Ruslan Rookie

    From a formula that used to pioneer rear engine cars, ground effects, turbo chargers, advance aerodynamics....to this, where the competitors gain an advantage for a race or three due to a clever "trick." and then FIA figures it out.
     
  10. I know, it's very sad, but the regulations are so strict that there is only very little that the teams can do
     
  11. Izumi

    Izumi Test Driver

    Where was the outrage when Dietrich Mateschitz purchased Minardi as his B-team?
     
    Mezzer likes this.
  12. Izumi

    Izumi Test Driver

    Yes, teams cannot do much, and this is not a small matter of charging ahead at some paint drying speed, but also cleaning up mistakes of the past which precipitated into aero, or power plant designs. It should not come then as surprise to anyone, that a team which got it right in 2014 looks so smart for so long, and rest of them like bunch of nincompoops.
     
  13. F1Brits_90

    F1Brits_90 Race Winner

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    True but then it was about young drivers & it was minority. Now these b teams just seem a way to stay afloat
     
  14. Ruslan

    Ruslan Rookie

    Well my hope....and this may only be my thinking, as then when they put in cost controls.....they can also loosen up the regulations. As many of those regulations are for the sake of controlling cost, they are no longer needed. We shall see.

    I do think Bernie Ecclestone did a great disserve to F1 when he finagled the scrapping of Todt's budget cap back in 2014. It was his final embarrassment before he checked out.
     
  15. Mezzer

    Mezzer A fine chap if ever there was one. Contributor

    Meh, the budget cap existed in name only, there were far too many ways to get around it. It was a nice idea but impossible to effectively monitor.
     
  16. Ruslan

    Ruslan Rookie

    It is bookkeeping. If a bunch of hockey players at the NHL can manage a budget cap across 31 teams....then I think F1 has the brainpower to do it.
     
    F1Brits_90 likes this.
  17. The Artist.....

    The Artist..... Champion Elect

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    Ruslan - I'm very much in favour of a budget cap, but when it comes to F1, there is a question about how it can be policed.

    Suppose, for instance, a team wanted to design a new part for their car in CFD, then run 100 iterations in a wind tunnel, and then make up the part themselves, they could:
    a) Do it all in house, and pay for the part development themselves
    b) Use a wholely owned subsidiary company to produce the part, and pay them a fraction of the cost of production to get the part.

    This would create opportunities for teams like Mercedes and Ferrari (who could use their road car divisions to produce parts), whilst privateer teams would be somewhat screwed.
     
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  18. vintly

    vintly Mostly bacon Premium Contributor

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    It doesn’t equate. Unless aero testing of hockey sticks runs into the millions. The cost of one F1 steering wheel could probably pay for a hockey teams’ kit for a decade.
     
  19. Ruslan

    Ruslan Rookie

    It is not a small task. It is $3.7 billion sport with 31 teams and tracking contracts for well over a 1,000 players. Their budget cap system works, and works well.
     
  20. Ruslan

    Ruslan Rookie

    Well, I am not an accountant, but I have run businesses.....so this does not seem that much of a challenge to me. You may have to require all budget to go through a single account that can be monitored by FIA, you may have to have rules about paying and evaluating the value for outside contractors, and so forth, but you only talking about oversight of 10 teams. There is enough personnel movement than any egregious violations will be quickly discovered...and it is going to take a significant financial violation to gain an advantage.
     
    Chasz likes this.
  21. vintly

    vintly Mostly bacon Premium Contributor

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    I’m glad it works well in hockey but it still doesn’t equate with motorsport.
     

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