Grand Prix 2018 Italian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Discussion in 'Formula One Discussion' started by Titch, Aug 25, 2018.

  1. Greenlantern101

    Greenlantern101 Super Hero And All Round Good Guy Contributor

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    Dam you FB I actually watched that expecting him to do a fist pump or something. ROFL ROFLROFLROFL
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  3. F1Brits_90

    F1Brits_90 Race Winner

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    brilliant lap from kimi, what a time to get it as the contract pendulum is swinging from week to week from Leclerc to Kimi. thats 1 way to impress the boss espically when your main rival was disappointing in Q1. being the oldest polesitter since nigel Mansell & the 4th oldest of the last 40yrs only beaten by Mario Andretti, Mansell & Reutemann but then as I always say Kimi would be multiple world champion if he was on a race by race contract. as he world beater when negotiating contracts & useless when hes safe

    vettel was odd he said to the media, kimi's on pole so he has the chance to win. which I doubt because if Ferrari dont sabotage kimi from inside like Monaco 2017 last time he was on pole. I just cant see it & for once I actually see the point of it now just not in austraila. because this is not Mercedes v Ferrari its Hamilton v Vettel. & 7 pts could be massive come abu dhabi

    considering he gets a lot of stick, got to praise lance stroll progressed into Q3 by being 8th. qualified 10th. whether he or car suits monza I dont know but shows that 2017 wasnt a fluke
  4. I don't think that Ferrari is up on power, Ferrari has a better management and deployment of the MGU, you could clearly see that at Spa where the Ferraris were much quicker out of Eau Rouge and the Mercs were quicker at the end of the Kemmel straight. Taking that into account I'd say that the Mercs will be stronger on the main straight and on the bit from Lesmo 2 down to Parabolica, whereas the Ferraris might have a small advantage from the first chicane down to la Roggia
    Ruslan likes this.
  5. Il_leone

    Il_leone Champion Elect

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    F1Brits_90 Monza only has 3 chicanes punctuated by long straights so really the aero problems of Williams are masked


    Going back to Kimi ... Vettel gave him a tow which meant he got pulled along down straights to help with his pole lap which apparently annoyed Vettel yesterday
  6. I can't believe how silly Ferrari was today, mistake after mistake by both the pit wall and their drivers.

    First of all: what is Kimi's role? is he there to help Vettel or is he there to race him? because this is quite a fundamental issue, Mercedes has a leader and a wingman, today the wingman was instrumental in Hamilton's victory, if Ferrari want to try and challenge Hamilton for the WDC they need some sort of input from Kimi, and today there was none, Kimi's only input - although probably unintentional - was in destrying Vettel's race.

    I know that Kimi was voted driver of the day, I struggle to understand how this could be the case, he did nothing remarkable apart from slamming the door in the face of his team mate twice in a matter of 650 metres.

    Let's start from the beginning: Kimi's only purpose at the start was to slam the door on Vettel, he gunned for his right as soon as the wheels started to move. Then when Vettel managed to get alongside him on the outside he closed on the outside. But that was not all, he then charged with a do or die move on the inside of Vettel under braking, and obviously Vettel went wide at turn 1 of the first chicane. That is when IMHO Vettel lost the race, because he got a nudge from Hamilton (obviously unintentional because it could have been very costly for Hamilton, but at the chicane in Monza these things happen), so Vettel was not only wide for turning into the second half of the chicane, but he also had to correct a (small) slide from the rear end of his car.

    Vettel's angle of attack for the second part of the chicane was compromised, he was on the engine a bit later than he should have been when he exited the corner and lost some valuable time. This allowed Hamilton to be much quicker into Curva Grande and into the braking at La Roggia.

    At this very moment Vettel was toast.

    Vettel in fairness did a mistake when he tried to resist Hamilton's move, defending from such a position at la Roggia never ever works, Vettel was quite naive in his move.

    So in a matter of less than 1,5 km Ferrari's WDC chances were already compromised by their mistakes, but that was no all, they had some further mistakes to come.

    First mistake: they fell into Mercedes' trap at the pit stop, I don't believe for a single second that Hamilton could have undercut Kimi for the very simple reason that Hamilton could keep close to Kimi (and therefore close to Kimi's times) only thanks to the slipstreams, as Emanuele Pirro correctly pointed out Hamilton could gain about half a second thanks to the tow that he was taking from Kimi's car from Parabolica to the first chicane. Being fooled into pitting Kimi so early was a massive mistake for Ferrari, Monza is one of the very few tracks where perceptions about undercuts can be deceptive. And Ferrari duly fell into the trick that Mercedes prepared for them

    then Kimi had to push like a madman (because he didn't have what it takes to be fast on that track with that car and look after his car) and he destroyed his rear tyres.

    Obviously since we talk about Kimi he didn't even try to defend his position and was very fair in letting Hamilton through (Kimi is a good sport, we all know that).

    then Kimi lost contact from Hamilton and was very slow, and in fairness his rear tyres looked suspiciously dangerous to me. Vettel was 5th on track catching up on Verstappen - Bottas with Verstappen who had to lose 5 seconds for the (very lenient) penalty that he received fort pushing Bottas off the track. So Vettel was quickly getting close to P4.

    If Ferrari was a team and not a group of people who happen to meet every other week end they would have pitted Kimi at that stage, and there were 2 very good reasons for pitting Kimi:
    1 - Kimi's rear tyres risked delamination, and
    2 - if Kimi pitted Vettel would have finished 3rd rather than 4th, 3 extra points for Vettel to try and keep the WDC even remotely open.

    Obviously Ferrari didn't pit Kimi and that WDC is now closed, what I struggle to understand is what gain did they achieve by having their #2 driver finish 2nd and no chance to keep the WDC open rather than having their #1 driver finish 3rd with a very very slim chance of keeping the WDC open, I really don't understand this. And I don't understand this because this time Kimi didn't play that good team mate as he did sometimes in the past, this time he raced his team mate and no one else, so IMHO they could have pitted him, this week end Ferrari had no moral obligation towards Kimi whatsoever.

    To sum it all up I'd say that the pit wall is incompetent, Kimi is pointless and Vettel very naive. That is why Ferrari will lose the 2018 WDC despite the best car

    Other than that Hamilton drove a sterling race, he was amazing but his car was not as fast as the Ferraris, he won and the Ferraris lost the race. For that reason I think that Hamilton will be a worthy 2018 WDC. I know that sometimes what Mercedes asks of Bottas is not very dignified and certainly not very sporty but Ferrari are shooting themselves in their feet every single time that they go racing. IMHO Arrivabene has to go and Kimi's car has to be made available for Leclerc, Kimi will never win again, he's past his best, sadly
    Angel and Ruslan like this.
  7. Chasz

    Chasz Points Scorer

    Tense race. Great drama!
  8. The Artist.....

    The Artist..... Champion Elect

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    I’ve got to agree with Publius Cornelius Scipio - Vettel didn’t lose (or even spin) because of Hamilton; he lost and spun because of Raikkonen constantly blocking him around the circuit.

    I understand that Charles Leclerc was due to be announced as the 2019 Ferrari driver after qualifying yesterday but, that was delayed due to Raikkonen claiming pole position. After that race, I’d announce Leclerc for Singapore...
  9. Il_leone

    Il_leone Champion Elect

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    Publius Cornelius Scipio I sense when Raikkonen got pole yesterday on top of crashing the Ferrari on a demo run that Vettel was putting himself under pressure to get the result.

    I was amazed at the start that Raikkonen did what Mansell did to Prost in Estoril in 1990. It did look like Vettel was so anxious to get past Raikkonen before lap 1 and turn him into a rear gunner.

    You have to wonder who is managing both drivers at Ferrari , suggestions were Arrivabene likes Raikkonen this would not have happened in Schumacher days. However there is a world drivers championship at stake and clearly Raikkonen should be playing a support role at this stage. Then again the Tifosi don't really care who wins as long as it is a Ferrari and that may not be the No 1 driver

    I do think Vettel just expects Raikkonen to move over at every opportunity for him but is not getting the same level of backing. Maybe the management told Raikkonen that you've got a few races left to prove your worth and so he did today to make a point.

    Its interesting that Vettel wanted Raikkonen to be No 2 to him and this situation with his contract is actually creating a bit of tension in the team.

    this was another opportunity missed by Ferrari again. However Hamilton earned the victory today in Senna like fashion
  10. F1Brits_90

    F1Brits_90 Race Winner

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    Really enjoyed that race it were great easily best Italian gp of turbo era before my memory not good enough to say. I could easily watch season of that & be happy. Unlike beligium when nothing happened. I know i should delighted with a great statgeric drive. but not like some media have called it his best. as its not best this season germany was better & hungary 2014 or 16 was history was laps a way as nearly won a race from the pit lane & kimi poor tyre management in opening stint helped lewis. But for 46 laps it was win win, lewis extending the title gap needed with Singapore next time. & kimi was going to win, which would made me more delighted. so i couldnt cheer the race winning move as my sentimental side really wanted to see him win

    while im talking about kimi. i hear the Ferrari contract pendulum that been swinging race by race between kimi & Leclerc. It would be irony that after so close to a pole & win at home turf. yet he could be gone but then really its his anonymous & quite poor displays in 2015 2016 2017 & some of 2018, where he might as well not turned up

    Again we saw vettel big weakness pressure. Like singapore his desperation cost as how much road did he want & he had no chance around outside of roggia chicane. but like Verstappen crash in Singapore its like he has no inclination to live to fight another day it cost him last year & unless wins 12 months later on his return could cost him in 2018. also on another incident that ive not seen much coverage that As "deluded" as magnussen thought alonso was in qualifying. He was just as guilty lap 9??? at lesmos jumped the chicane but refused to give the place back to perez . Causing damage that ruined his race but seemingly irrelevant considering Haas failed post race checks seemingly disqualifying grosjean
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2018
  11. Il_leone

    Il_leone Champion Elect

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  12. Ruslan

    Ruslan Rookie

    Another of your great posts.

    It is not quite over. Hamilton has a 30 point lead. This means if the remaining 1-2's all belong to Vettel and Hamilton over the next 7 races (which has only happened in 4 out of 14 races this season), then Vettel has to get 5 wins to Hamilton's 2. The situation gets easier or worse if either Bottas or Raikkonen insert themselves in the mix. So far this year, Raikkonen has finished in front of Hamilton one time, taking 3 points from Hamilton, whereas Bottas has been in front of Vettel three times taking 8 points from Vettel.
  13. Ruslan

    Ruslan Rookie

    Nico's comments were almost over the top in his praise of Hamilton, but Hamilton did drive a good race today.
  14. Il_leone I'm rushing to take the train but what you wrote is very interesting, the most interesting bit here is obviously the relationship between the various players. I get the feeling that deep down Vettel knows that he's fighting on his own against a proper team, that could explain why he always seems to be under so much pressure and why he makes mistakes. It is also important to stress that it was Vettel who insisted in having Kimi as his team mate, so he brought this upon himself

    I also happen to believe that Vettel knew that he had to keep ahead of Hamilton yesterday because we all know that overtaking is "easy" at Monza but if the car in front of you doesn't want to let you through there is very little that you can do unless you want to risk causing an accident, we have seen what happened between Verstappen and Bottas. On that respect we have to bear in mind 2 things: Hamilton had nothing to lose from an accident with Vettel and Vettel knew that in all lilelyhood the stewards would have ruled against him had anything happened. IMHO that is why he tried to keep ahead of Hamilton, the problem was that in order to keep ahead of Hamilton he also had to keep ahead of Raikkonen who didn't seem to willing to comply.

    My feeling before the race was that Vettel wasn't happy for what happened in Q3 when they let him out for the last run ahead of Kimi, in a nutshell they gave Kimithe advantage of Vettel's tow. I couldn't quite understand why they did that because if a run down team in F3 can understand this (and this is what has always happened at Monza, always) surely a top F1 team should know better.
  15. that is what should worry Vettel's fans, if Kimi gets in the way it's over for Vettel LOL
  16. cider_and_toast

    cider_and_toast Exulted Lord High Moderator of the Apex Staff Member Premium Contributor

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    I get the feeling that Vettel is very much like a shortbread biscuit. Fine under normal circumstances and very much an outstanding biscuit of its type however, under even a slight amount of pressure it's liable to crumble.
  17. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives CTA Best Avatar Award Winner Contributor

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    So don't dunk Sebastian Vettel in your tea.

    Max Verstappen is a Jaffa Cake. He is often quoted by people as their favourite biscuit but there is a whole argument to suggest he is not a biscuit at all.

    Bottas is a Rich Tea in that they are plain, a bit dull and no one's first choice, however when it comes down to it they are just as good as nearly all other biscuits.

    Nico Hulkenberg is a Garibaldi because he is never featured in the luxury biscuits collection but is probably superior than some that are.
  18. gethinceri

    gethinceri Daniil Kvyat Fan. Alfa Romeo Fan. Contributor

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    Post of the day RasputinLives
  19. F1Brits_90

    F1Brits_90 Race Winner

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    F1 drivers as biscuits is brilliantROFL
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2018
  20. Angel

    Angel Pole Sitter Supporter

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    RasputinLives Bottas as a rich team makes sense, he gives in too easily when it gets a bit hot, just a rich tea when it's exposed to a hot drink.

    I am beginning to think Hamilton is a Hobnob, it doesn't seem to matter what happens, he keeps on going!! Oh and I don't like hobnobs either ;)
    rufus_mcdufus likes this.
  21. Angel

    Angel Pole Sitter Supporter

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    Of course the biggest story of the race yesterday which hasn't been mentioned is that Grosjean's car got disqualified which moves everyone up, that means Sirotkin has finally scored a point!!! :cheer::1st::victory:

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