Grand Prix 2018 Hungarian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Discussion in 'Formula One Discussion' started by RasputinLives, Jul 24, 2018.

  1. olegg

    olegg Race Winner

    Weather forecast says that sunday will be hottest day in this weekend
    It will be a difficult race for Mercedes
     
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  3. last Sunday was hot and it was very difficult for Ferrari
     
  4. because in the 80s and 90s they didn't have silly park ferme rules that prevented any work on the car, nowadays the problem are not the drivers but the fact that that have to use cars that have been set up for dry tarmac and that is dangerous because for example in places without increasing the ground clearance of a car you have the certainty of aquaplaning

    That is why when it rains they always start behind the SC, if the cars have been set up for the dry (and since they are prevented from making any change after qualy) the cars are undriveable in the wet. If you tried to drive a car from the 80s or the 90s with a dry set up in the wet using full wet tyres you would crash, it just doesn't work. Back then they could increase the height of the car, soften the springs, give more bias to the rear spoiler rather than the front splitter, change the brake bias to the rear, work on the fuel/air mix, work on the diff and on the geometry of the suspensions, sometimes move the centre of pressure a bit to the rear, etc, nowadays all that they can do, and they can only do it if the rain arrives during a race and they have to pit to change tyres, is reduce the front wing, that's all they can do.

    IMHO the rules are crazy
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2018
  5. Il_leone

    Il_leone Champion Elect

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    Angellica I think if Lawrence Stroll's money comes in , the team would be an official Mercedes junior team which he wants but I really don't want to hear Lance' crybaby antics. He's done very little for Williams - Claire Williams response that Hamilton would not be able to anything in a Williams is a stupid statement to make to justify her current drivers

    The Rich Energy bid was dismissed which is quite rightly so seeing how Gold and Sullivan have angered fans at West Ham with lack of investment and we've seen how people in investing in football teams have ended up in disaster when managing an F1 business.
     
  6. Il_leone

    Il_leone Champion Elect

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    Raikkonen's drinks bottle apparently has not been attached :o:facepalm:
     
  7. FB

    FB Not my cup of cake Valued Member

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    On his slowing down lap Hamiton's engineer came on the radio to congratulate him on the win by saying "Fantastically managed race Lewis". Doesn't that just sum up everything that's wrong with F1?
     
  8. Il_leone

    Il_leone Champion Elect

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    FB Was not it not fantastically managed given he seized the moment to stick the car on pole and get a good getaway ? If you want to blame anyone you have to blame the track layout and regulations with aero and tyres
     
  9. Ruslan

    Ruslan Rookie

    Kind of sleeper until the end.

    1. Hamilton did drive a well managed race. He did show some impressive raw speed on Saturday in qualifying, but he was not seriously challenged today.
    2. Vettel: I am not sure what to say. Don't want to be overly critical but he was whining about backmarkers yet again lurked forever behind Bottas, and when he did pass, he did not do so in a particularly safe manner. He could have left room for Bottas just to be safe, which would make sense as he needed those 18 points. What if he had ended up with a cut tire? A mediocre drive from Vettel. Granted, if he had not lost 2 seconds in the pit....he would have come out ahead of Bottas, but I kind of doubt he would have chased Mercedes down.
    3. I don't understand what was going on with Raikkonen, why did he pit so early? I gather towards the end of the race, he knew that he was not supposed to challenge Vettel. Anyhow, it does not appear that Ferrari had any tire advantage at Hungary, and they clearly had a disadvantage at the previous race, so kind of wondering what happened to the tire advantage they had for most of this season. Did they loose it somehow? Did Mercedes correct their problems?
    4. Bottas: Again, a good soldier. They should not have pitted him as soon as they did. He clearly is a #2 wingman for the rest of the season (and Wolf said as much). Fought a hard but probably bound-to-loose battle with Vettel. Both collisions at the end of the race were his fault, although Vettel should have been savy enough to leave some space just in case and DR should probably not have seriously attempted an outside pass. Anyhow, no damage done. We will see if Bottas is penalized for the second accident.
    5. Championship: With Hamilton having a 24 point lead, then Vettel either needs 1) Hamilton to drop out of a race, 2) Win 7 of the next 9 races (assuming that all races have Hamilton and Vettel as a 1-2). With both Finn's clearly #2 drivers and Red Bull probably not competitive except for places like Singapore....I think the next 9 races are a shoot out between Hamilton and Vettel. If there are no failures, crashes, or other drivers inserted into the top results, then this favors Hamilton.
    6. Red Bull: This was the one track that they were supposed to shine at. I guess not. Perfectly competent race from DR and he got a well earned 4th place for it. It is fun to watch him pass, as he is so good at it. Vertappen actually did a very nice job on the first couple of corners. But this is Verstappen, he is a dynamic and aggressive driver. Sometimes it creates great results for him, sometimes we get periods like earlier this year.
    7. The rest: Gasly had a boring but successful race. As maligned as McLaren is, somehow Alonso always manages to get some points. The rest was as expected. Is Force India effectively uncompetitive for the rest of the season? Haas is now the 5th highest scoring team in the championship and McLaren is not that far behind.
     
  10. Izumi

    Izumi Test Driver

    Couple of races back in Q2 Vettel was dealt penalty for alleged driving slow on a racing line, yet nothing much was in stake for complaining Sainz.

    In this race with WDC is on the line, back-markers were not ready to yield, blue flags were not raised when they should have been, and when Vettel says something about it, then he is whining?

    Weird sense for balanced stewardship. It's tiring to.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2018
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  11. rufus_mcdufus

    rufus_mcdufus Champion Elect

    I can't help thinking Kimi was the better of the two Ferraris today but he was sacrificed somewhat early on with an early pitstop to try and get Bottas to cover. The second pitstop seemed very early, and used softs? But ironically it worked out fairly well for him as Seb's car just didn't seem to be working well on the ultras. I feel Kimi had a better chance of tackling Lewis than Seb today.
     
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  12. Il_leone

    Il_leone Champion Elect

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    rufus_mcdufus You know Kimi is still fighting for his job but really I think Ferrari's mismanagement of Kimi Raikkonen is also the reason why Vettel is not leading the championship. i dont' mean just move over or hold station but by using him in a more race aggressive manner like the chance was today
     
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  13. olegg

    olegg Race Winner

    Vettel wasn't able to win, starting from a place outside the podium positions
    All his 51 wins were made from 1-2-3 starting positions
     
  14. YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  15. Clay

    Clay Test Driver

    He wasn't close enough to Bottas to overtake and in the second lap after his pit stop he already had to back off because the tires and engine were overheating. You could actually see him driving a different line to Bottas only to cool down the car. Ricciardo for example was passing cars that were 2 seconds slower than him and even had to lunge at a few to be able to overtake them into turn 1. It just goes to show how difficult it is to overtake on this circuit.
     
  16. Clay

    Clay Test Driver

    Vettel whines, Hamilton prays. I don get either, every driver complains about being blocked despite the waving of blue flags for the driver to be lapped.
     
  17. I agree that the race wasn't a classic, I fear that we'll have to disagree on Vettel and Bottas

    1 Hamilton was lucky, managed the race well and his team mate was willing to humiliate himself to help him, Hamilton in my eyes is one of the luckiest man on earth

    2 I don't see many issues in his driving yesterday, he was very fast, he did what he had to do but was very unlucky, the fact that he lost a position to Bottas due to a problem with a wheel no locking properly cannot be his fault. I think that without that problem he could have won the race. Now coming to your remarks: regarding the backmarkers I remember him complaining (mildly) when for about one and a half lap Ocon held him up, costing him about 2 seconds if I remember correctly: in fairness I think that he had a point. Ocon is a great driver but someone should explain to him that when you go to any lenghts to please someone there is the risk that in the process you overdo it, and IMHO Ocon is on the edge on that respect, helping his employer (not his team, that is different) is one thing, going too far quite another. Anyway, Vettel and no chance to pass Bottas, he couldn't get in his slipstream even with the DRS open, Bottas did everything that could be done to block him. And consider that whereas Vettel had everything to lose Bottas had nothing to lose. Also Vettel knew that if he got very close he would risk destroying his tyres. On top of that whenever Vettel gets anywhere near a Mercedes he gets some sort of punishment, whereas the Mercedes drivers can take a very liberal approach to hard racing the Ferraris. All Vettel could do was wait for Bottas' rear tyres to deteriorate and try a move, and that's what he did. Regarding his move on Bottas I don't see what he could have done differently, he had to be aggressive because Bottas was being very aggressive and he had to lose the door. I'm not sure that this was a racing incident, it looked to me as if Bottas had some score to settle with Vettel, I wouldn't say that it was deliberate but Bottas took a punt fully knowing that if it go wrong it would have been good for his team

    3 Kimi did ok, he was given a strategy to force Mercedes to react and bring Bottas out of the question and that's what happened, pity Ferrari screwed Vettel's pit stop. In clean air Vettel was faster than Kimi (Vettel did his fastest lap on lap 70, 1:20.056, a couple of tenths faster than Kimi's best, which happened significantly earlier on lap 55 (with fresher tyres). In a sense Kimi cathcing up Vettel made him look much faster than he really was, but Vettel was slow because he was being blocked by Bottas

    4 I wouldn't call Bottas a good soldier, yesterday he looked more like someone desperate to me bcause something doesn't quite stack up in Bottas race. After his pit stop he was doing 1:23s, as soon as Vettel was behind him he started doing 1:21.5, why? I'm sure that the pit wall gave him some sort of engine boost but that doesn't account for 1 and a half second. So maybe he was "waiting" for Vettel to catch him in order to slow him down. He then did all he could to hold up Vettel, and that's fine with me, but his coming together with Vettel doesn't really look like just any other racing accident, and that is because he was behind Vettel's car, not beside him, he did a kamikaze move and got away with it, not even a reprimand, which is rather inconsistent if you consider that in France Vettel was punished (and vilified) for something far less serious. He then tried to resist to Ricciardo despite the fact that with his front wing damaged he didn't have much grip at the front and so could not brake late. The 10 second penalty looks farcical to me, on the one hand IMHO if rule consistency is something to be taken into account he should have been punished for hitting Vettel, on the other 10 seconds was a very lenient penalty. But there you go, this is no longer a matter of double standards every now and then, this is stating to look like an accepted trend. I wonder what James Allison has to say about Bottas's driving into Vettel after his comments on Kimi's mistake a few races back

    5 championship is over, Hamilton has been very lucky, Vettel made too many mistakes and the powers that be are totally biased in favour of Mercedes

    6 Red Bull are a disgrace, Horner's request for an apology by Renault was proposterous

    7 I think that Gasly is good but not as good as Leclerc, and it's a shame that Alonso (and Ricciardo) cannot join either Ferrari or Mercedes
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2018
    Angel likes this.
  18. Izumi

    Izumi Test Driver

    Should we expect an announcement probably after summer break, that Ferrari will hire DR? Italian media must be hopping mad this morning. I am assuming for Alonso door is permanently closed.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2018
  19. FB

    FB Not my cup of cake Valued Member

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    DR Izumi? I came up with Demis Roussos but I'm assuming it's not him.
     
  20. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives Happy to be me again Contributor

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    Democratic Republic? Are Ferrari declaring themselves an independent state?
     
  21. Izumi

    Izumi Test Driver

    OK, I give you 2 more guesses. Hint: it's not Nana Mouskouri either. 8-)
     

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