Grand Prix 2018 French Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Discussion in 'Formula One Discussion' started by FB, Jun 10, 2018.

  1. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives Happy to be me again Contributor

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    In what context was Vettel telling Charlie Whiting to F off? ;)
     
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  3. :thumbsup: very nice post!
     
  4. he didn't curse charlie in public, he cursed Charlie during a private radio message aimed directly at Charlie, the powers that be can hear all radio messages and often drivers talk directly to the stewards because they know that they are listening to them (a bit like a client of mine who is under the impression that the police is tapping his phone, so every time that he picks up the phone he sends his greetings to the police officers overhearing his conversations LOL) the fact that the powers that be decided to shame Vettel publicly just goes to show how childish and inadequate they are
     
    Angel likes this.
  5. Ruslan

    Ruslan Rookie

    Well, if this was one isolated incident, then everyone would wave it off. But, this is hardly the first time we have seen a melt-down by Vettel. I was a Vettel fan until he took Webber off the track in 2010 and then threw that infamous tantrum. This is not the only such incident. He deliberately crashed into Hamilton last year and there are many other such moments. This is not something caused by people editing sound clips, or showing select videos, or press bias; they are mostly caused by the driver's behavior. While you can explain away some, you simply cannot explain away all of these incidents.

    Of course, the original question I believe was: is Charlie Whiting biased against Vettel?
     
    Chasz likes this.
  6. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives Happy to be me again Contributor

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    Ruslan once again I refer you to all the other drivers countless tantrums and misgivings of which they are many. They match all of what you've said about him above. Hell Verstappen has been nothing but a spoilt entilted brat since he entered the sport and grown men pretty much throw their moist underwear at him everytime he goes on the track.

    People dislike Vettel because he won a lot and had a period of dominance. People like to make out winners aren't as good as they are. Look at any driver who has ever had a period of dominance and you'll find at the time people hated them. I don't know why but that's our culture.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
    Angel likes this.
  7. Ruslan

    Ruslan Rookie

    Rasputin, Verstappen is hardly are good comparison. He is a "spoilt entitled brat" on steroids. Vettel can be quite charming and likeable for most of the time. One commentator claimed after one of Vettel's "hissy fits" that Bambi had turned into a werewolf.

    This is a high pressure situation, and every driver losses it at some point. But, Vettel's poor behavior does sort of slot him into the bottom third of drivers.

    Not sure that is my culture. ;)

    Anyhow, I think the original direction of this discussion was is Charlie Whiting biased against Vettel and is that part of the reason he got the 5 second penalty last weekend...or did Vettel simply deserve a 5 second (or worse) penalty for hitting Bottas (or to take Scipio always very informed opinion...which I think is no for Vettel but yes for hitting Grosjean)
     
    Chasz likes this.
  8. Angel

    Angel Points Scorer Supporter

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    Ruslan you know I love you as a good friend and have for a long time, but I still don't see Vettel as you do and I doubt I ever will. I know he gets annoyed at times, but then who doesn't? Even I do that and we both know it takes a lot to make me lose it.

    Pressure gets to everyone in the end and Vettel is no different, he just gets more attention when it happens to him because of who he is. He's fighting for a world championship and that is a huge pressure on anyone, mistakes happen and people get annoyed, just look at Hamilton and how he behaved during the last race in 2016, he tried everything and acted like a baby so he could try to make sure Rosberg didn't become champion instead of him. Was that behaviour any better? Vettel didn't deliberately hit anyone this last race as far as I could tell, for me he was maybe trying too hard and that sometimes causes silly errors, but that doesn't make him a bad person.
     
  9. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives Happy to be me again Contributor

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    Why? Are you one of Putin's troll bots? :)
     
  10. I personally think that the stewards are always a bit harsh on Vettel, but in the end I also believe that last Sunday he should have been punished for hitting Grosjean so there you go, fair enough he got a 5 seconds penalty (which isn't the end of the world). I also happen to think that Versbatten and Hamilton always get away with things that would result in a punishment for drivers (if it was Sirotkin, he would probably be hanged, drawn and quartered). Mind you it happened in the past, Senna and Schumacher (although not in his fiunal Ferrari years), for example, were always treated rather kindly by the powers that be, I'd say that generally the best drivers tend to get some sort of preferential treatment, Vettel seem to be the exemption to the rule, I wonder why because he looks like a down to earth and reasonable chap
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2018
    Angel likes this.
  11. Ruslan

    Ruslan Rookie

    No. I was born in Hawaii.
     
  12. Ruslan

    Ruslan Rookie

    No, it was not deliberate. On the other hand, he certainly did cause an accident (for which Bottas does not share much fault for).
     
    Chasz likes this.
  13. Ruslan

    Ruslan Rookie

    Yea, five seconds is really the lightest penalty you could impose.

    I am not entirely sure of all this.
     
    Chasz likes this.
  14. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives Happy to be me again Contributor

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    Ahhh one of Obama's troll bots ;)
     
    teabagyokel and Bill Boddy like this.
  15. Angel

    Angel Points Scorer Supporter

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    Yes, Bottas lost out this time but there are also times when Vettel has been the victim of such accidents. Kyvat hit him twice in the first lap in Russia in 2016 which not only put Vettel out of the race, it also affected Kvyat's own team mate as Vettel was pushed into Ricciardo. That was after also forcing Vettel into Kimi's car in China only two weeks before. Then you recall Grosjean and his early career, how many crashes did he have? None intentional I am sure, but the net result was other drivers had their races ruined by him. As I said, this is motor racing and these things happen unfortunately we all make mistakes and none of us are perfect. (Though I'm pretty close of course, as you well know :yes:).

    Vettel held up his hands and apologised for what he'd done to Bottas, not that it helps Bottas of course, but by then there's nothing more he could do.
     
  16. Ruslan

    Ruslan Rookie

    Well, I don't have a long form birth certificate either.
     
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  17. Ruslan

    Ruslan Rookie

    So, I guess the question is, when should they penalize drivers for causing accidents? There is a rule book (which is not specific) and a set of traditions (which are not particularly consistent) and it was determined by a committee of three, including a former driver. Was the ruling out of line with other rulings? I hear Lauda and other people at Mercedes saying it was not enough of a penalty.
     
  18. ah, that's a million dollar question, I guess that a driver should be punished for causing an accident when it was either intentional or he accepted the risk of causing an accident, IMHO if you make a mistake and as a consequence you hit someone then you shouldn't be punished, next time it might be the other way round

    My impression is that in F1 there is someone who believes that as soon as two cars touch each other then someone should be punished, I know that in recent times there has been some significant development but I still object to the underlying assumption that if a driver touches another car then there must be some sort of retribution because mistakes aren't supposed to happen. My personal take is that if you're a driver your duty is to try as hard as you can, and when you're close to the limit it is possible to make mistakes.

    Just look at the approach that people have these days to a driver who spins his car: it's a capital sin, it shouldn't happen, and if it happens you're lucky if you don't get punished, in my days we all had several spins at each event, if you didn't have a spin you weren't trying hard enough, and that was true not only of the junior formulae but also of F1, most drivers had at least a spin at each event, ideally during practice, because the meaning of practice was that you got out there and tried to reach the limit. Nowadays the limit is set, you know at how many revs you have to take each turn and so on, it has all become very much formulaic and very risk averse. I know that crashing is not funny, even if you don't break a leg it still hurts, but the point that I'm trying to make is that until a few decades ago motorsport was all about how close you got to the limit and what risks you thereby accepted, now it's only about the technical element, risk should be erased from motorsport, or at least that is the case for F1, I would never ride a motorbike but I love MotoGP because in MotoGP the risk element is still there, whereas F1 has been completely sanitised and in the process it lost its soul (mind you I'm not advocating the return of times when drivers were sitting in high octane petrol that could ignite at any moment, nor I think that it would be justifiable to drive cars where your feet are in front of the front wheels)
     
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  19. Ruslan

    Ruslan Rookie

    Very nice post.
     
  20. Bill Boddy

    Bill Boddy Professional layabout Premium Contributor

    Maybe, Publius Cornelius Scipio since nearly all these crashes occur in the first lap the cars should set off at five second intervals. That would please those who think that the racing is too close.:no:
     
  21. Ruslan

    Ruslan Rookie

    Well, Indy car does do rolling starts.... but I would hate to see the standing start go.
     

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