Grand Prix 2018 British Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Discussion in 'Formula One Discussion' started by F1Brits_90, Jul 1, 2018.

  1. Andyoak

    Andyoak Race Winner

    It was the first 3 corners of the first lap.

    Cars always get bumped at the start of the race... This was a racing incident.
    Shit happens.
    Get over it.

    And Hamilton drove a great race to rescue the situation (although I think a lot of the back markers jumped out of the way in surprise).

    If Bottas was nerfed would anyone care as much?
     
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  3. cider_and_toast

    cider_and_toast Everything in moderation Staff Member Premium Contributor

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    Well said that man.
     
  4. Ruslan

    Ruslan Test Driver

    Interesting race. A little drama and the championship remains close.

    1. Hamilton got one of his occasional poor starts and Vettel got one of his typically good starts. Vettel grabs the lead.

    2. Raikonnen taps Hamilton with predictable results. Lots of things to discuss here:
    a. Raikonnen after the race said that he missed the braking and hit Hamilton, it was fair that the stewarts gave him a 10 second penalty and it was justified (or something along that line). Nice to actually hear something like that said. Raikonnen is not one of my favorite drivers, but that was a decent set of comments.
    b. Of course, this raises the question, if Raikonnen's 10 second penalty was fair by Raikonnen's own account....then what was Vettel's 5 second penalty the week before?
    c. And.....if Vettel is being unfairly targeted by the stewards (or Charlie Whiting), does this unfairness extend to Raikonnen or all Ferraris?

    3. Bottas did close within two seconds of Vettel, but I am not sure he would have actually been able to take the lead. The Mercedes looked to be slightly faster (at least in the hands of Hamilton) and actually had better tire wear (that advantage will go away next race). So....I suspect if Hamilton had not muffed the start, he could have comfortably won.

    4. After that, it looked like the race settled early on into a simple 1-2-3-4-5-6 order (Vettel/Bottas/Hamilton/Raikonnen/verstappen/Ricciardo)...then the safety cars came out.

    5. I think Mercedes screwed up by not pitting Bottas when the safety car came out. Keeping Hamilton out made sense because he had only recently pitted, but Bottas was potentially going to be a sitting duck late in the race (as was the case). The only other logic I could see is that they were hoping that Bottas would hold up Vettel so Hamilton could get him, but I usually assume incompetence first. Anyhow, looks like Mercedes screwed up the race strategy for at least the second race this season. Who is in charge of that?

    6. Hulkenberg returned to his usual status as the best of the rest.

    7. Grosjean returned to his usual status also....unfortunately.

    8. Leclerc looked very good when he had four wheels firmly attached.

    9. Vettel did do a nice pass on Bottas.

    10. The Verstappen-Raikonnen fight was rather amazing. Verstappen was doing things that really did not look possible. He does impress me as a driver (not as a person).

    11. I suspect going into Germany, Ferrari may have a slight edge, but really hard to tell. I think the Mercedes had the edge at Silverstone.

    12. I actually liked the triple header. I gather it is gone next year.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
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  5. Mezzer

    Mezzer A fine chap if ever there was one. Contributor

    IMO they kept Bottas out as they thought he might back Vettel into Hamilton's reach, but the Vettel's Ferrari was the quicker car at that point due primarily to the tyres. In this instance Merc were in a damned-if-you do/damned-if-you-don't scenario, someone's going to pick fault regardless of what happens.
     
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  6. Ruslan I think that Raikkonen made a mistake, in fairness to Hamilton he had left enough room on the inside (probably he thought that someone would pass him, he was really slow, not only at the start but also into turn 2 and 3), sadly mistakes happen and Raikkonen admitted that it was his fault. IMHO that is a racing incident but in this blame culture you have to be punished if you make a mistake.

    Sadly Hamilton behaved like a child after the race, no one is perfect, I actually think that he was not particularly upset by the accident with Kimi but by the fact that he made a very poor start and that he knew that he didn't have the pace to win. Because Hamilton drove very well from the back of the field but in fairness the 2 SCs were a massive help for him and in effect when the race restarted from the 2nd SC it was a level playing field (or thereabout because Bottas was on worn out tyres, but he wouldn't be in the lead had he stopped, and Vettel lost a position), Hamilton has nothing to complain, yesterday Vettel won fair and square, I know that he had newer tyres than Bottas but that move was still fantastic, especially considering that Bottas had nothing to lose and had clearly signaled that he wouldn't mind taking a rather liberal approach at the rules when defending.

    Regarding whether 10 seconds was fair or whether it should have been 5 IMHO it is a bit of a farce since it was the same situation and it was judged using different standards, I have heard people saying that Kimi was given 10 seconds because he didn't lose time in the accident, I would like to kindly point out that this is nowhere in the rules :whistle:

    I personally don't think that there is a bias against Ferrari, I think that there is a bias in favour of Hamilton and Versbatten, it's different, IMHO the 10 seconds penalty was given only because Kimi happened to bump into Hamilton, had he hit Bottas or Ricciardo it would probably have been deemed a racing accident. In the end Kimi gained significantly from the 2 SCs, same as Hamilton, so the effects of that accident were ironed out and IMHO the drivers had the chance to race on a level playing field (forgetting for a second about the tyres).
     
    Angel likes this.
  7. Angel

    Angel Rookie Supporter

    Well said Publius Cornelius Scipio I've missed your race reviews, it's always a pleasure to read your thoughts my friend :)
     
  8. racecub

    racecub Champion Elect

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    Well despite the woes of Hamilton on the first lap I had a fantastic weekend. I believe Hamilton could have won that despite his bad start if it werent for Kimi’s brain fart. It happened right in front of my grandstand....did you not hear my wail?? I dot think Kimi did it on purpose at all, I dint think that’s his style, Vettel yes, Kimi no. It was clumsy and amateurish having been left plenty of room by Hamilton. Nothing wrong with alerting Ferrari to the fact that’s two races in a row where their clumsy dtvin* ha£ fist their main competitor.
    5 seconds for Vettel
    10 seconds for Kimi
    :thinking::dunno:

    Neither of which inconvenienced the perpetrators as much as their actions inconvenienceD innocent parties. That seems wrong to me.

    Anyway, thereafter it was a joy watching Hamilton fight back.

    The safety car certainly helped Hamilton, a cheer went up when it was called. It also helped Vettel. He got a free pitstop With tyres where the fronts were suffering. Hamilton could have done that on one stop, Vettel could not.

    I didn’t stay to watch the podium, dashed off to miss traffic and sailed home without one hold up.

    I caught the interviews later. I think sulky is the wrong word to describe Hamilton, desperately disappointed I d say... with himself for that start, and not delivering in a weekend and a pt a place where for a variety of reasons he really wanted to.

    During practice, vestappen’s off was also where we were sitting then. It certainly was an action packed weekend!
    The atmosphere all weekend , and the weather, was incredible! Football on the big screens, amazing!
    This was a really good Silverstone! It will be just so awful if they move the GP away. All the interviewed drivers in all categories said they loved driving this track. I’ll try to post some pictures later.

    Just booked next year’s tickets. There’s cheap deals out there right now!,
     
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  9. Grizzly

    Grizzly Bear Contributor

    An interesting viewpoint. By the same reasoning you could argue this shows a bias towards Vettel. Both are equally wrong in my view.

    What does unfortunately muddy the water and raise doubt over the consistency of stewards decisions was their open admission last year that the penalty handed out to Vettel for deliberately hitting another competitor in frustration was diminished due to their wish to avoid any impact on the championship! What did "we" all say that effectively communicated to the junior categories? ferrucci-banned-after-collision-with-teammate
     
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  10. cider_and_toast

    cider_and_toast Everything in moderation Staff Member Premium Contributor

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    Thank the great chicken that the internet wasn't around in 1964. Here's how you take being bumped by a Ferrari with class and dignity:

    Graham Hill from his book “Graham”

    “……….. But I lost the whole World Championship in 1964, one of the years when I was runner-up, through another driver making a mistake and running into me during the final Championship race in Mexico. You could say it was bad luck — but I suppose you could say I shouldn’t have been there at that particular spot at that precise moment. However, I was there and he was trying to overtake me in a hairpin. He’d had a couple of goes at it, but the last time he just overcooked it — went out of control and thumped me. It bent my exhaust pipes up and I had to come into the pits. I lost so much time that I finished well down in the race - which was won by Surtees with a one point lead.
    That was that. It had happened and nothing I could do or say would alter it. That’s the way I tend to see things when they have gone wrong. There’s no point in worrying about it, or all the other things that happened time and time again to rob me of winning races. I don’t look back and, this way, I have few regrets. Hopefully, I learn from these setbacks but I apply them forwards. Basically, if you look forward things tend to get better. Because we all live in hope and if there’s no hope there’s no life and no point in living.”
     
  11. siffert_fan

    siffert_fan Too old to watch the Asian races live. Contributor

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    :thumbsup:

    God, how I miss Graham! He was a very class act, the likes of which is entirely missing in today's sport.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
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  12. The Artist.....

    The Artist..... Champion Elect

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    Why is everyone forgetting the Austrian Grand prix between the French and British GPs? When Vettel was nerfed out of the way by Verstappen (although Vettel did hold onto the car) - and Max didn't get a penalty
     
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  13. I think that the bottom line is that in such a professional sport we need consistency and rule clarity and a set of stewards for the whole season rather than a new set of stewards at each race (some of which I personally find not up to the task) and rules that are interpreted in such convoluted and inconsistent manners
     
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  14. Bill Boddy

    Bill Boddy Professional layabout Premium Contributor

    Can I make another 2 points Ruslan ? Well, I'm going to anyway, just being polite.:)

    13. For the first part of Hamilton's fight back he was coming up against cars which were at least three seconds per lap slower than he. Once the DRS was allowed he was coming up against cars which were two seconds a lap slower than he with DRS zones which were the most and longest that there have ever been (there was much discussion on the BBC on this subject on Friday morning), he was in DRS mode just about every lap. One of the things that the commentators agreed on was that it was very much in the favour of the faster cars.

    14. I worked out from the timing screens just before the safety car that if things continued as they were Hamilton would just about catch Bottas by the end of the race. I feel pretty sure that Vettel knew this as well and that he was managing his tyres to the point that he was driving only just fast enough to keep Bottas out of the DRS zone.

    This is pure surmise of course since we do not know how successful the RBR cars would have been in their fights with Hamilton, how well Vettels tyres would have lasted or how much Hamilton's tyres would have suffered whilst being driven flat out continuously..
     
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  15. racecub

    racecub Champion Elect

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    I don’t have many pics of raceday. I think you miss too much action faffing about with cameras and phones.
    Here’s when Max crashed. (Tried two different image link thingies because I din5 know which one to choose

    [​IMG][/url][/IMG]


    [​IMG][/url][/IMG]

    Edit. Hmmm, neither worked :givemestrength:
     
  16. Bushi

    Bushi Pole Sitter

    Vettel broke his wing and was at the back of the grid and had to pit for another wing, in comparison with Kimi who was fourth without any damage.
    And to be honest both IMO where racing incidents.

    If I remember correctly Verstappen broke Vettels wing at the start of the candian GP last year and got nothing for that.

    And why do you think it's Vettel's style to drive into another car on purpose? Because he was a Schumacher fan?
     
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  17. The Artist.....

    The Artist..... Champion Elect

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    Bushi
     
  18. racecub

    racecub Champion Elect

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    No, because he deliberately drove into Hamilton at Baku.
     
  19. funny statement by Kimi's wife
     
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  20. Bushi

    Bushi Pole Sitter

    The Artist..... Ok, in my mind it was more severe. :D But the main consensus seems to be here that if you ruin another drivers race you should get a penalty. And in that aspect Verstappen should have been given a penalty.

    racecub Oh yeah, that bump that knocked Lewis his tooth fillings out. :)
    You make it sound like he's got Schumacher esque behaviour. I think all in all he's a fair driver.

    It's a bit weird that Lewis accuses the Ferrari drivers of deliberate hitting the Merc drivers. Don't think any driver wants to hit another driver unless you are called Pastor Maldonado. If he looks a few years back when he had his squabble with Massa, he should realize accidents can happen.
     
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  21. racecub

    racecub Champion Elect

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    Not sure about any tooth fillings. I’m talking about when he pulled alongside Hamilton and deliberately swerved into him ( after having rear ended him behind the safety car) That was a deliberate action.
     

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