Grand Prix 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Discussion in 'Formula One Discussion' started by cider_and_toast, Nov 4, 2018.

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  1. FB

    FB Not my cup of cake Valued Member

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    Vettel had sensor problems on his car. This is what affected his car on the dummy grid and made him so slow in the race.
     
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  3. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives Happy to be me again Contributor

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    Again I'll point out Kimi couldn't overtake Bottas when he was a second off the pace which not only held up his team mate but allowed Ricciardo to get in the game. Being as others in cars with less grunt were flying past him I believe Kimi should have done better.

    Not the first time in the last few years I've got the distinct impression that Kimi's overtaking skills come and go.
     
  4. Il_leone

    Il_leone Champion Elect

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    RasputinLives Everyone can see that except Arrivabene because Kimi is his best mate (and Vettel - who wanted a not so competitive teammate . I am looking forward to LeClerc getting into the mix and maybe teach Max a few manners
     
  5. F1Brits_90

    F1Brits_90 Race Winner

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    Publius Cornelius Scipio

    Yeah ocon legally can overtake & unlap himself. max couldve done things better in hindsight. If they were for position being on same lap then this because a completely different issue. I would say max shouldve gave room, But this for me doesnt come under rules & regulations it more comes under the unwritten sportsmanship code. like football - giving the ball back after they kicked it out, Snooker - calling fouls on themselves & Cricket- if you hit it you walk before the umpire decision

    Yes he can unlap himself. But anyone under any race series you respect & give the leader of the race a wide berth you make sure it's as risk free as possible if you do make a move. As its not your race to interfere So to throw a risky punt up the inside on leader of the race when your 16th is not done thing & Max wouldnt have been expecting a lapped runner to do that ocon shouldve pulled out before he started breaking into T2. what was it achieving. In 4 laps max wouldve reovertaken him. Rumours he was trying to impress the paddock by overtaking max
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
  6. Ruslan

    Ruslan Rookie

    Verstappen hit a backmarker while comfortably leading a race. Pretty bone-headed. I remember only one other driver in F1 history doing that more than once (A. Senna). I have no doubt that Verstappen will do it again.

    The laws of physics apply no matter how great and important you think you are. You have to leave space for a car when you pass them.

    In the end, Hamilton continues to show himself to be a more complete driver than the guys who names start with V. He earned that win even if he did not deserve it.

    Next year may be very interesting if the Red Bulls are competitive. If I was Mercedes, I would replace Bottas with Ocon....just for the entertainment value. This could become like professional wrestling.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
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  7. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives Happy to be me again Contributor

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    Going to say something a bit controversial. I think Merc haven't taken Ocon on because he has a fiesty personality and they don't want to risk damaging this calm confident Hamilton they have in their arsenal right now. Bottas is laid back and never stirs the pot. Ocon would set his stall out to beat Hamilton (not saying he would) and it would upset the apple cart.

    For what it's worth I believe that Ocon is the same level of talent as Verstappen and Leclerc, which is why it's disappointing Merc didn't commit like the other two top teams. There is all this talk of 2020 but drivers not racing every weekend get very quickly forgotten about no matter how good they are.

    I think it may be the end for poor old Esteban which is a real shame for the sport and us the fans. I'd love to have seen Ocon and Verstappen go at it again in cars on the same level.
     
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  8. F1Brits_90

    F1Brits_90 Race Winner

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    very true reminds me of oliver Rowland did brilliant things in F2 & FR3.5 really impressed. but he didnt managed to get on the gurd & unfortunately 2 more brits come in to overtake him In Russell & Norris. we all know way F1 is if Russell impresses at Williams like Leclerc at sauber. If bottas has another disappointing season then it will be Russell who is in pole position for that Mercedes seat
     
  9. Angel

    Angel Points Scorer Supporter

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    Just a quick query, why if the crash was more Max's fault (as seems to be the consensus of opinon) did the stewards give Ocon and not Max the penalty for causing the crash?
     
  10. we have discussed that many times, penalties are handed out on the basis of who was involved, try to put it this way: do you think that if it was Vettel who cut across Ocon after Ocon had earned the right to be in that position (when the exited Turn 1 Ocon was both slightly ahead of Max as well as on the racing line) Ocon would be punished? Or do you think that the stewards would punish Vettel because he didn't leave the mandatory space to Ocon?
     
  11. Ruslan

    Ruslan Rookie

    I am mystified by this stewarding decision. But.....actually it is irrelevant whose fault it was. Max was comfortably leading the race and he got into an entirely unnecessary conflict with a backmarker. All he had to do was leave space going through the second corner...and he would have won the race.
     
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  12. it's not uncommon that a driver unlaps himself, in sports car racing it happens all the time, it's not an insult to the leader of the race, it's just a matter of fact, that's how things work, if a driver is faster what's the problem if he tries to unlap himself?

    Your point reminds me of what Fisichella told last Sunday at Sky Italia where he was of the pundits together with Ivan Capelli and Jarno Trulli. Capelli saw no problem in what happened, Trulli was the opinion that once a driver is lapped he should be forced to retire, Fisichella said that what Ocon did was disrespectful. Then Ivan Capelli asked hima very simple question, he asked him "Giancarlo what do you normally do when you race for Ferrari in sport cars when you are leading the race and a faster backmarker wants to unlap himself?". Fisichella's answer was great: "I let him through trying to avoid any issue because I've got nothing to gain from racing him", and that's the whole point of this issue. Every sensible driver in such a situation doesn't race a backmarker who wants to unlap himself, MAx did and I'm sure that next time he won't
     
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  13. also he would have passed Ocon once again going into turn 3 thanks to the DRS and waved blue flags. Other than that Max drove a sterling race but IMHO he made a big mistake with Ocon
     
  14. F1Brits_90

    F1Brits_90 Race Winner

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    Screenshot_20181113-211221.jpg
     
  15. Il_leone

    Il_leone Champion Elect

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    I think Bottas is dead man walking at Mercedes at the moment and the only thing that can save him is if he has a Rosberg like season ala 2016 to ward off the critics.

    It is interesting to hear now that the reason that Ocon has not been promoted is because of his competitive rivalry with Perez which might worry Hamilton akin to the situation that Lewis was in at Mclaren

    I think the history between the two (Ocon and Verstappen) is beginning to excite people now about the future of F1 . As for Esteban's position at Merc with Wehrlein out of the picture he is very much Mercedes' future although would Merc seriously putting him in the same car as Verstappen?

    Russell is 2 years away at least from being promoted to the main team so unless Vandoorne becomes a shock contender to return with Merc after 1 stellar season in FE so Ocon needs to impress still to warrant the seat
     
  16. Angel

    Angel Points Scorer Supporter

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    I understand what Publius Cornelius Scipio is saying but it doesn't reflect well on F1 if that is the case does it? So effectively it doesn't matter so much what you do, it's who you are that matters most, that's so wrong on so many levels.

    Max should have acted differently, he was a fool in many ways and he could have been a lot smarter in that moment, that is true, but in the heat of a race it's a whole other thing, I know that. His reaction to Ocon after the race shows he went to the same charm school his father did as well which also makes me think less well of him. His reponse to why he shoved Ocon the way he did is because apparently 'Ocon was smiling at him'. If he allows his temper to get the better of him like that too often I think he's in for a lot of trouble in the future and frankly it will serve him right too. That's how I see it anyway.
     
  17. pity this article is only in Italian
     
  18. Slyboogy

    Slyboogy World Champion Contributor

    The Ferraris was easily overtaken by the Red Bulls as Ferrari had to add more downforce and to prevent high tyre wear. Neither Ferrari despite being in 4 tenths within the car infront with DRS couldn't get anywhere near alongside the Red Bull or Mercedes. Their straight line speed was hampered by the set up change from Friday to Saturday that even the Red Bulls were passing them before the end of the straight.

    Kimi did the best he could with a no man's land strategy and with a hampered set up.
     
  19. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives Happy to be me again Contributor

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    I'm pretty sure Kimi did do the best he could which is what worries me. Previously I've always thought he could do better if he could just be bothered to try. Now days I just don't think he's on pace of others.

    Just my view like.
     
  20. F1Brits_90

    F1Brits_90 Race Winner

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    He isn't the driver he was but that to be expected he's 39 95% of sportsmen decline at that age But as i saying if Kimi Raikkonen makes the podium in abu Dhabi. Which he probably won't as it rosewater LOL he will have his most successful season in terms of podiums. after the summer break he has matched vettel. great win in USA

    but you wonder if its vettel level gone down or Kimi come up
     
  21. Ruslan

    Ruslan Rookie

    Well, I am not sure I buy into all the bias and conspiracy theories banded about in F1. On the other hand, Scipio has a lot of direct experience with that world, while I have none. Still, I remain ambivalent about how accurate all these claims of bias are.

    I like Ocon....a lot. He does smile enough even as he is doing outrageous stuff like knocking his teammate off the track. He is not the cleanest driver out there by far.
     
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