Grand Prix 2018 Austrian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Discussion in 'Formula One Discussion' started by cider_and_toast, Jun 24, 2018.

  1. I'm surprised that you don't have an issue with Verstappen's "bump and pass" move on Raikkonen as it was exactly the same thing that Vettel did to Bottas in France and my understanding was that you thought that the penalty that Vettel got was fair and square. As for me I think that if Vettel had bumbed and passed Versbatten it would have been the end of the world, not only he would have been punished for it but we would be talking of what a bad sport he is, etc etc. Mind you I don't think that Versbatten should have been punished yesterday, I'm sure that it was unintentional, the point is that Vettel's move on Bottas in France was unintentional too so IMHO we have the old issue about double standards.

    Anyway the race was good, there were some good moves (Vettel on Hamilton, Bottas on the first lap on Kimi, etc), I feel a bit sorry for Hamilton because I think that yesterday he drove a very good second part of the race (the times he pulled with that blistered tyre were amazing) as well as for Ricciardo who was doing equally well. Versbatten drove well but in the end Versbatten, Kimi and Vettel were all rather lucky because in fairness they didn't have the pace to challenge the Mercs (I'm surprised that Vettel didn't seem to have a stronger pace and that Kimi did so many mistakes at turn 1 and at the hairpin, that was quite unusual for him)
     
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  3. The Artist.....

    The Artist..... Champion Elect

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    RasputinLives - I have a slightly different tinfoil hat on... Hamilton’s retirement was due to (allegedly) loss of fuel pressure. Historically, this was always a euphemism for “we ran out of petrol”.., so, if we assume he ran out, there are a number of possibilities:
    1. The team didn’t put enough fuel in at the beginning
    2. The loss of electrical power led to higher fuel usage
    3. Hamilton turned the engine up, using more fuel following the botched pitstop
    4. A pump broke.
    Now, whilst 4. is probably the truth, it’s much more fun to discuss 1.or 3.!
     
    Angel and cider_and_toast like this.
  4. cider_and_toast

    cider_and_toast Everything in moderation Staff Member Premium Contributor

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    Ayrton Senna could have been 1986 or 1987 World Drivers Champion but for that pesky loss of fuel pressure. Lotus were notoriously bad for getting the poorest economy out of their Honda's.
     
  5. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives Happy to be me again Contributor

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    Very short fuelled if he ran out. Was a long way from home.
     
  6. Galahad

    Galahad Not a Moderator Valued Member

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    I found the unreliability a delightfully old-school development. If the circuit is too short and in need of more interesting sections, they could bring back the old section of track over the back of Turn 1 - that was almost too interesting at times.

    The thin-gauge tyres are back at Silverstone, so I suspect the blistering won't be repeated there. And knowing Silverstone, there's still every chance of icicles forming on the halo.

    Well, yes, but the ideal drive wouldn't involve going off on the first lap. Credit for the recovery, but Ferrari's expectations of him will be higher.
     
  7. Ruslan

    Ruslan Rookie

    Well, actually I do have an issue with Verstappen's "bump and pass." It is part of the reason I mentioned it that way. Of course the difference is that Vettel's move took Bottas out of the race (effectively) and damaged his car, whereas Verstappen just got a place from it (which of course led to his win). I am not sure Raikonnen was damaged and did not have a chance to come back and fight.

    So yes, one could certainly argue in this case that Vettel should not have been penalized, or one could argue that Verstappen should have been penalized. Of course, if Verstappen got a five second penalty, I think he would have still won the race.

    From a practical point of view, cars are going to bump and rub a little during the course of a race. What you don't want is people taking each other out, especially if they are contending for a championship. So I think the "degree of violation," primarily measured by how nasty the hit is, is an issue. I think it is a different standard if you take your opponent out.
     
  8. Ruslan

    Ruslan Rookie

    Well, I have my doubts that Leclerc should spend his sophomore season at Ferrari. After all he is a kid. I think a number of drivers would have had a more balanced view of things if they have not been moved up to top teams so quickly (you could argue that this comment would apply to Raikonnen, Hamilton, Vettel, Verstappen and even Alonso).

    I did like the old school feel of the race with all the reliability problems. It is a team sport after all.
     
  9. I think that it's only natural that drivers bump into each other every now and then, they are at the very limit, mistakes can happen, I'm sure that Versbatten didn't really mean to hit Kimi but it still happened, it was unintentional, I'm glad that the stewards didn't punish him. My point is that Vettel's move on Bottas was very similar, on that basis I think that it was a racing incident (even though I'm sure that you remind that IMHO Vettel was at fault for hitting Grosjean)
     
  10. siffert_fan

    siffert_fan Too old to watch the Asian races live. Contributor

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    Congratulations to the Haas Team!!!!!!

    Well-deserved and overdue success at last.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2018
  11. Ruslan

    Ruslan Rookie

    Understand.
     
  12. Ruslan

    Ruslan Rookie

    Yea, I know. I almost support my fellow American team.....except the team owner is a convicted felon.
     
  13. teabagyokel

    teabagyokel #dejavu Valued Member

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    Ruslan - It is most careless for a Formula One team owner to be convicted of a felony...
     
  14. FB

    FB Not my cup of cake Valued Member

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    Fantasy F1 Profile:
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    Some even have a heart attack to avoid being convicted.
     
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  15. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives Happy to be me again Contributor

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    After catching up with all the F2 and GP3 I can confirm this track is fantastic for close wheel to wheel racing....as long as your regs are set up to allow wheel to wheel racing.

    Seems to be a common theme. When we hear 'this track is difficult to overtake on' we be hearing 'this track is difficult to overtake on because of the way the cars are designed'.
     
    F1Brits_90 likes this.
  16. Ruslan

    Ruslan Rookie

    It was before he became an F1 owner, but Gene Haas served 16 months in prison from January 2008 to May 2009. It occurred when he was a NASCAR team owner.

    Whole Wikipedia account:

    On the morning of June 19, 2006, Haas was arrested by IRS agents for investigation of filing false tax returns, witness intimidation, and conspiracy. Four others were indicted together with Haas, all of whom pleaded guilty.

    Just before Haas's case was to go to trial, a plea agreement was reached with Haas, whereby he would plead guilty to felony conspiracy to commit tax evasion. He was sentenced to two years in prison and ordered to pay $75 million in restitution.

    Haas was incarcerated beginning January 2008 and was released on probation May 2009 after serving 16 months of his two-year sentence.
     
  17. siffert_fan

    siffert_fan Too old to watch the Asian races live. Contributor

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    I am a big enough cynic that I believe that, if you dug deep enough into the finances of ANY mega-rich person, they could all be hit with tax evasion. Why do you think Trump won't release his tax returns as he had promised? He's ashamed it would make everyone jealous about how brilliant he is?

    If Haas were richer, he could have bought off witnesses rather than threaten them. That's what most really rich folks do.
     
    teabagyokel likes this.
  18. marksawatsky

    marksawatsky Points Scorer Contributor

    I guess I'm a bigger cynic than you because I think the government could charge and convict ANYBODY, not just rich people.
     
  19. Bill Boddy

    Bill Boddy Professional layabout Premium Contributor

    According to F1.com Live Timing:

    VER 1:07.623
    RAI +1.504
    VET +3.181
     
  20. Angel

    Angel Points Scorer Supporter

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    Like Bernie every time he was taken to court for something.
     
  21. F1Brits_90

    F1Brits_90 Race Winner

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    I was very curious in what eyetime was the title sponsor of f1 & after a bit of research also the Austrian moto gp at the red bull ring, as I was assuming it was a eyesight charity or the Austrian specsavers. but I got surprised as they were nothing like that according to marking stuff on app store "Eyetime is the messaging system of the future that will revolutionise personal and corporate communication. With innovative features, state-of-the-art encryption and worldwide connectivity" but then I got really surprised when I typed in "eyetime app" into google & came across this link which if the allegations the author makes are correct then it could be very murky indeed

    Inside Line: Is Eyetime part of a Ponzi scheme? | GRAND PRIX 247
     

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