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Featured Grand Prix 2017 Spanish Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Discussion in 'Grand Prix Discussions' started by cider_and_toast, Apr 30, 2017.

  1. Rutherford

    Rutherford Rookie

    This is pathetic, I read it happened fifteen minutes into the session. It was a new engine with barely any mileage.

    McLaren have to move to Mercedes for the remainder of the season, this isn't only damaging Hondas, but also McLaren reputation and they literally aren't moving forward in terms of development.
     
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  3. F1Brits_90

    F1Brits_90 Pole Sitter

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    as im on abit of delay with FP1, just got to the final seconds of FP1 turns out with my 3 years of development comparsion quote just got mentioned by crofty LOL
    it was like i know that name, oh yeah it me :o
     
  4. Greenlantern101

    Greenlantern101 Super Hero And All Round Good Guy Contributor

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    If I was Alonso I would be making this my last race for McLaren and trying to get in Palmers seat for Canada.
     
  5. Andyoak

    Andyoak Race Winner

    If I were Alonso I'd be looking to leave F1.

    Why waste any more years not getting a championship or even wins in the series 9he won't get them in Renault either) when you got be a champion in other series (LMP).

    He's at the end of his natural career in F1.
     
    gethinceri likes this.
  6. Greenlantern101

    Greenlantern101 Super Hero And All Round Good Guy Contributor

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    I think he wants one more championship in F1 or he would of left after Ferrari.
     
  7. cider_and_toast

    cider_and_toast Everything in moderation Staff Member Premium Contributor

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    The Renaults can take some satisfaction from second practice.

    Alonso on the other hand. Oh dear.
     
  8. FB

    FB Not my cup of cake Valued Member

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    Anyone think Ferrari are sandbagging?
     
  9. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives He's the master of going faster Contributor

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    Ermmmm Merc have run engines in F1 every year since the mid 90s. They started their own team in 2011 but had been running engines for a lot longer.
     
  10. cider_and_toast

    cider_and_toast Everything in moderation Staff Member Premium Contributor

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    Mercedes scored points in their first season as a supplier in 94 with Sauber.

    Podiums in seasons 2 and 3 when they switched to McLaren.

    Their first wins came in season 4 and they were world champions with McLaren by season 5.

    The much maligned Toyota team managed to score points in their debut and had worked out where the podium was regularly by season 4.

    In this spell, Honda have been in F1 for almost 17 years including a short break and that has only returned 1 win. (That performance would have been matched by Toyota as a supplier had Alonso rightly lost his Singapore 08 win).

    Has there been a worse return by any engine manufacturer over such a long period of time?
     
  11. Rutherford

    Rutherford Rookie

    cider_and_toast

    Didn't Mercedes re-brand Illmor engines, when they entered in '94?
     
  12. F1Brits_90

    F1Brits_90 Pole Sitter

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    True but honda are hardly newcomers to F1 mclaren or Turbos. The engines were such a reset for everyone that majority of manufactors were starting on V6 as soon as possible in 2011. As there wasnt much transferable knowledge to use bar the ers

    As i put on Alonso thread honda have had more advantages than the other 3 manufacters as between 2011-14 all the other 3 had was 2 pre seasons tests. Honda have had nearly 2 cars with 45gps & 14000km of race testing knowledge thats without mentioning all pre & in season testing. They feel further off likes of competitive top 10 finishes than they have been. With rumours of them shaking itself to bits
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2017
  13. RasputinLives

    RasputinLives He's the master of going faster Contributor

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    All the other 3 had far more cars running than Honda.

    I'm not defending Honda too much as they have done a shoddy job but I Don't think any other incoming engine manufacturers would do much better. The dominant engine suppliers have set them multiple little put falls along the way because they Don't want them to succeed.
     
  14. cider_and_toast

    cider_and_toast Everything in moderation Staff Member Premium Contributor

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    Technically yes but before the 94 season Mercedes acquired a 25% stake in Illmor and had more involvement in the 94 engine.
     
  15. cider_and_toast

    cider_and_toast Everything in moderation Staff Member Premium Contributor

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    As far as Honda goes, its clear that unlike BMW and Toyota who spent a long time testing before committing to entering, they arrived thoroughly unprepared and have been playing catch up ever since. Granted the hybrid engines are far more complex than those from the early 00's but Honda were aware of the requirements.

    As I said at the time, Ron's typically Ronesque exclusive deal was always going to harm Honda's development when testing is so limited.
     
  16. The Pits

    The Pits Harumph. Again. Valued Member

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    I disagree.

    Cosworth didn't do too badly in 2010 although this was under the Old regulations. All the current teams have had teething issues, but Honda have taken it to a whole new level.

    If anyone can recall any worse performance than this from what is, lets not forget, an absolute powerhouse in the automotive arena, including high performance engines, then please inform me.

    This is the 4th season of these regs, and I could accept them still being a little behind still. But they are way off in power and reliability, and they seem to have no answer.

    For a company with the resource of Honda that is just not good enough.
     
  17. FB

    FB Not my cup of cake Valued Member

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    Between 1961 and 1988 Alfa Romeo managed to win two races as an engine supplier in F1 and one of those was the infamous Brabham Fan car. Their engines included a 1.5 litre straight 4, a 3 litre V8, a 3 litre flat 12, a 3 litre V12 and a 1.5 litre V8. They scored a grand total of 139 points during those years.

    I should point out that they didn't compete as either an engine supplier or manufacturer in 1964, '66 to '69 or from '72 to '75.

    I see your Honda and raise you an Alfa Romeo.
     
  18. Bill Boddy

    Bill Boddy Professional layabout Premium Contributor

    They should take a tip from dinghy sailing. I had a Graduate and in the instructions for assessing conformation to the rules it says that the hull of the boat must be a fair smooth curve.
     
  19. Il_leone

    Il_leone Race Winner

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    Apparently the DRS zone has been extended by another 100 metres ..
     
  20. Il_leone

    Il_leone Race Winner

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    Vettel has had an engine change
     
    Speshal likes this.
  21. Bushi

    Bushi Pole Sitter

    Pfff Merc lock out for 1st and 2nd place and the same at Monaco. Will be watching Formula E, cheers.
     

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