Grand Prix 2013 Italian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Sebastian Vettel is unstoppable.
He is leading Alonso by 46 points in the championship, with some of his most successful circuits to come.
After convincingly winning at Spa (supposedly one of his weaker circuits) we move on to Monza (another of his supposedly weak circuits) for the 12th round of the season, the Italian Grand Prix. The Monza circuit, set in a royal park, has hosted the Italian Grand Prix every year except for 1980. It is vastly different from every other circuit in the calendar, requiring minimum downforce, minimum drag and a lot of horses in the engine. As it is Fewwawi's home circuit, they will be under immense pressure from the Tifosi to perform well, and, judging by their Alonso's performance at Spa, the team may as well be in a good position going into the race.

Monza is steeped in tradition, with the traditional cantilever grandstands, the traditionally vocal fans and the traditional surroundings. It is usually a place where many major driver announcements are traditionally made, as it is traditionally the last European race of the season. Of course, Ferrari & McLaren traditionally do well here, and Red Bull traditionally do not.

Last year, Lewis Hamilton strolled through the race weekend, winning convincingly, and Sergio Perez took a quite brilliant second place in his Sauber, with the Fewwawi's third and fourth. Red Bull did not score.

The weather is usually a predictable affair - there have only been three wet/varied races since 1950 (1981, 2004 & 2008) so expect it to be warm and sunny. The tight first chicane, however, leaves potential for first lap incident.

Remember, the race is live on both the BBC and Sky in two weeks, so British fans - no excuse for missing it!!!

All that remains for me to say is Ready, Steady, Discuss!!!

 

[RasputinLives]

Il_leone yes and I find that odd. If Massa or Webber had disobeyed team orders it would have been met with big cries of 'about time!' and praise. Vettek doesn't appear to be able to win.

Personally I think people dislike him first and try and come up reasons to justify it afterwords. Its not unusal it happens in all sports when someone is so much better than everyone else they are making them look stupid. Schumacher was booed, Senna was booed.

Only person I can think of it hasn't happened to is Valentino Rossi

 

[Mephistopheles]

Valentino Rossi used to win all the time In MotoGP and people love the pants off him in fact I've never heard a bad word said about him by any of the fans and people dislike other riders when they beat him he is even an adopted Englishman...

So if it isn't just the winning that people don't like what is it...?

For me it is that bloody annoying finger.....

 

[sushifiesta]

Everyone except Ferrari gets booed at Monza, especially if that person is stopping Ferrari from winning. Vettel has had some minor grumblings elsewhere but this is being blown out of proportion.

 

[Jos the Boss]

It's the way he wins, if he fought through the field in a close race won by a couple tenths/seconds, I wouldn't mind him as much!

 

[Hamberg]

It's not the first or the last time it's going to happen, there are quite a few other racers and still an open ish constructors thanks to our good friend Webber.

I find coming to peace with Seb being out front and watching second place onwards makes the race still more interesting. For those who want front runner action there were some superb overtakes today, we saw Webber, Hamilton, Raikkonen and Alonso show us some magic defending and attacking.

Seb had to drive that car around with massive vibrations after ensuring he stayed ahead after the first corner and still ran away. Credit where it's due.

 

[siffert_fan]

Yet another dire weekend for the Williams team. At this point, I honestly don't know if the drivers are terrible, the car is horrible or a combination of both! It really is depressing to see such a storied team having such travails.

 

[Mephistopheles]

I have come to terms with it as well Hamberg and hope that next year with the massive reg changes it will be a completely different kettle of alphabetti spaghetti....

 

[McZiderRed]

Mephistopheles Are you saying that if next year is not completely different, the kettle contents may spell disaster..?

 

[teabagyokel]

siffert_fan - It is the car. Maldonado would've banged in at least one Q3 performance if the car was OK.

He wouldn't be consistent, but he'd have got one.

 

[cider_and_toast]

Suprised at the lack of comments on the very downbeat Hamilton in the post race interviews. I guess deep down he knows that after a strong showing prior to the mid season break his hopes for the title have faded significantly if not totally.

I've often commented in the past about Hamilton's dialogue with his team on the radio and it seems that the loss of two way comms had a crippling effect on his race. While, in this era of racing, the information relaiting to tyre managment, positiion and other strategic information is vital to a drivers race craft, no doubt some of this can be passed by the pit board so the effect on the race would be similar for every driver if they lost their radio however, Hamilton, much like Massa, seems to need the reassurance of their race engineer in the ear.

As for Vettel, it seems that as well as a good car, world class pace and ability it would seem that even when he has bad luck and car issues, it's still not as bad as anyone elses. That sort of combination is un-beatable at the best of times.

As I said in the after race rating thread, the lack of a credable and consistent challenger to the Red Bull team is what makes it so frustrating for the neutral fan.

 

[Fenderman]

Indeed, although I'm not so sure about "... Hamilton, much like Massa, seems to need the reassurance of their race engineer in the ear." Considering his drive today I would say the problem was more the lack of communicated information rather than a lack of encouragement. After all he has been beating himself up all weekend with regard to what he sees as his poor performance in practice and qualy'. From where I sit (comfortably insulated as ever) if the radio and slow puncture issues had not happened at all, a 5th place finish might have been possible. 4th at best.

In his post race comments he again referred to already having blown the race on Saturday. Having been so much more competitive this season against all expectations, I imagine seeing his championship hopes evaporate so quickly must be somewhat dispiriting. Methinks, that once he has processed that and said to himself "I must remember my pre-season expectations" a few times in the mirror he'll dust himself off and cheer up. Any pressure to bring home a title, whether from himself or anyone else will now be gone. He can concentrate on taking each race as it comes and developing himself for 2014.

 

[F1ang-o]

Glad you said that ...it was what I was thiking...
But LH has now said that he is not giving up on title fight...http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24008983
Seb has definately had all the luck lately....as well as the best car & Number 1 status

 

[Quintessentially]

Even with the car issues, Webber was able to keep up with Alonso and could've overtaken him with better strategic driving. I don't think Redbulls problems were as bad as they made it out to be. The car had genuine top running pace unlike last year when both cars failed to finish. The latter was probably what made them nervous and overly concerned about the car issues. Like Spa, it was very disappointing that the rain didn't arrive to spice things up a bit, otherwise the race was a blur with some decent action down the field.

 

[Lewywo4]

F1ang-o....Lewis I believe doesn't need reassurance from his race engineer, but communication from him during a race, and even while qualifying. Hamilton hardly needs the relationship with any race engineer, similar to what Felipe seems to have with Bob Smedley. I wasn't suprised at all by Lewis's look at the end of the race today, because I can remember Anthony Hamilton commenting on his so-called downbeat look which he had, whenever he lost or did poorly during a race while......Karting.

 

[F1ang-o]

Lewywo4
Martin Brundle said LH appeared to be looking down, fixing something on his steering column? when he went off in Q2 at Parabolica.... LH didn't blame anyone else...
I agree he doesn't need reassurance...in fact he has asked (McLaren) engineers to shut up...at times..

 

[snowy]

Lewis gained significantly from not having his engineer telling him to slow down and conserve fuel and tyres. Even with a slow puncture he was setting fastest laps and when he was called in for his second stop he was setting purple sectors and should have been left to get on with it. They were concerned about traffic, had they left him alone he'd have cleared them set more fastest laps and come in when his tyres were actually giving up and not when they were in their prime.

I think they should disable the radio permanently, Lewis would soon adapt and stop driving to the ill conceived computer strategies of pen pushing numpties.

 

[Tuscan1969]

Anyone know why did Red Bull got allowed to change gears on both cars after quali but have no penalty at all....I'd have thought this meant a break of the Parc Ferme rules at least?

Shame about the Championchip status (all over bar the shouting) but it was exciting watching all the overtaking (apart from P1 of course) ..... makes me thing its time to give 5 points for Pole but set a reverse grid (top 10 only) ....so If Seb got pole he'd have 5 points but have to start from 10th...... just imagine the overtaking action then.....

Obvioulsy never going to happen but what a thought....

 

[cider_and_toast]

snowy in a round about way, you've backed up the point I was making. Maybe I didn't make myself fully clear. I didn't mean that Hamilton has a relationship with his engineer in the same way as Massa has with big bad Bob but that Hamilton relies (perhaps too much) on the confirmation of everything via his team radio. Those moments in previous races where we've heard Hamilton exclaim "what's going on guys" or "why did we make that decision?" where as his team mate has got on the squawk box and said "this is what I'm doing and this is what I want".

I agree with you snowy, that all team radio should be banned. This would reduce the likelyhood for team orders (though they could still be passed via the pit board) and put the emphasis back on the driver to make the correct tactical and strategic calls. Their could still be a radio system available to safety messages to be passed by the FIA to cars (rain at turn XX for example).

 

[Dizzi]

I didn't see much of the race so my opinions should be taken with a pinch of salt. To be honest I came in from walking the dogs at lap 5, saw who was in front and then took the dogs out again until lap 50.
I heard the Red Bull comms about car issues but more often than not I think it's gamesmanship to put the other teams off their guards, how often have we heard "gearbox issue" & Seb's car whizz on for another victory...why were Red Bull allowed to get away with changing gears in parc ferme??
The midfield passes however were superb & carried out with guts and respect.
It's a shame Alonso couldn't have challenged Vettel a bit more & make him fight for the win.
As for the booing on the podium, it's not sporting and certainly wouldn't have been condoned in the origins of the sport but then sticking your finger up at everyone isn't exactly nice or gentlemanly either...
It was rather sad seeing Williams and McLaren looking so pathetic this weekend I only hope they're concentrating on 2014 now.
I also wonder if Ron Denis had a word in Whitmarsh's ear after a pathetic points score - at least Lewis got them podiums.
Not sure I can be bothered to say roll on Singapore...yawn...but I'm a glutton for punishment so will probably watch it anyway.
BTW I also agree with limiting radios to official messages & let the drivers make more decisions.

 

[Slyboogy]

Even with a slow puncture he was setting fastest laps and when he was called in for his second stop he was setting purple sectors and should have been left to get on with it. They were concerned about traffic, had they left him alone he'd have cleared them set more fastest laps and come in when his tyres were actually giving up and not when they were in their prime.

I think they should disable the radio permanently, Lewis would soon adapt and stop driving to the ill conceived computer strategies of pen pushing numpties.

I think that was from the first stint, as they pitted much earlier, then he wasn't setting fastest laps at all, otherwise they would have stuck with the harder tyre for a little longer if they didn't identify the problem.