Grand Prix 2012 Belgian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Doesn't time fly! The summer break is approaching the end and after an astonishing Olympics which gripped a nation, the attention now turns across the Channel to see if another Brit can continue his push for glory. Victory in Hungary saw Lewis Hamilton reignite his stuttering season and closed (however small) the gap to Alonso to just over 40 points. The update package introduced in Germany have thrown McLaren back to the front again and just in time as any longer and Hamilton would have been out of the title battle just like his team-mate has been after a nightmare summer for Button. Hamilton has generally gone well at Spa with 1 win, a third place and a fourth. Although depending on your viewpoint it should be 2 wins and a fourth after the 2008 mess.

Although the true king of Spa has returned to the throne in the Lotus and with wins in 2004,2005,2007 and 2009 (close to winning in 2008 as well) not many would bet against the Iceman taking his first victory of the season at his favourite track. The Lotus has been in good form in recent races and a second and third in Hungary proved that where they pushed Hamilton from lights to flag but couldn't quite get past the McLaren driver.

Belgium is famous for it's 4 seasons in a hour in all different parts of the track weather and no doubt if rain is about that plays into the hands of the Championship leader Alonso as the Ferrari is the quickest car in the wet but possibly only the 4th quickest car in the dry, that was evident at Hungary anyway, whether that translates to Spa it is unknown, however Ferrari have traditionally been quick at Spa having won more times there (16) than anyone else so they/Alonso will be in the mix on race day, well let's face it, Massa won't be.

The big unknown here is Red Bull, having had to make several changes to their car to stop make sure it is legal and it has affected performance in recent races and they weren't in the hunt in Hungary. Indeed, Double World Champion Sebastian Vettel is on the longest winless streak since he joined Red Bull in 2009 having not won since Bahrain in April and the young German is currently a few points behind Mark Webber who has had somewhat of a resurgance this year having won at Monaco and Silverstone to become the leading chase driver in the Championship behind Alonso. No doubt Red Bull will be keen to avoid the infighting that nearly cost them the 2010 Championship and to ensure that they don't fall foul of any more FIA regulations as any more problems could see them slip behind Hamilton and possibly even Raikkonen.

Raikkonen is viewed by many as the dark horse for the Championship. He's only a few points behind Hamilton despite having yet to win a race this season which is a testament to his consistency, something which so nearly got him the 2003 title despite only winning one race all year (Malaysia). He's closed down bigger gaps in the past (2007) so he could play a major part in the Championship and if he doesn't ultimately end up in the mix at the end of the season, he'll certainly play a part in terms of taking points off other drivers as he will want to be in contention for podiums and wins as the first win has eluded him so far. He's certainly having a very successful comeback so far and has shown that the 2 years he's had out hasn't affected him whatsoever.

For Galahad 's circuit write up - http://cliptheapex.com/pages/circuit-de-spa-francorchamps/

 

[Il_leone]

Has anyone given Nico Hulkenberg credit for his 4th on here ? I know DI Resta had a a kers problem but Hulkenberg is now got the race pace and seems to be always ahead of Di Resta

This could be a few critical weeks for Paul if he is going to get the Mercedes seat or not

 

[gethinceri]

Or the Ferrari seat.

 

[Kewee]

Kewee,
I agree with you 100% regarding the Senna/Prost & Schumacher eras. However, I repeat my earlier point that their sort of blocking/barging/weaving behaviour was not responsible for the Spa accident. All that was, in reality, was a quite minor accidental coming together of two side-by-side cars due to the poor judgement of one driver, which had a near catastrophic result due to the interlocking of the wheels which sent one car airborne.
In my view no amount of regulation would prevent the possibility of such an accident happening again. What would have made such a serious outcome much less likely on Sunday would have been some bodywork between the front & rear wheels, like go-karts have and something like the way Indycar is going:

Personally, I would rather see something like this in F1 than ever more 'driving standards' regulations and/or cockpit canopies.

The only issue people will have with this Chad is the appearance of the cars. Personally I think the Indy cars look hideous but on ovals the additional bodywork serves a valuable purpose in the interests of safety. I'm not sure it's necessary in F1 if drivers lifted their standards. Consider the kerfuffle from everyone when they got their first look at the stepped nose. The criticism was so constant that the FIA evidently intend changing the regulations to make the cars attractive again. Can you imagine the negative reaction from everyone if F1 cars started sprouting bodywork around the wheels.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

Kewee; yes, there was an adverse reaction to the stepped noses and I was one of the ones who hated them most. But people began to get used to them after a while, and some people now actually quite like them. Can't say I'd go that far and I'll be quite glad when they've gone, but to my mind there have been other far uglier appendages to F1 cars down the years than either stepped noses or Indy style side bodywork.

Forward roll hoops would surely be one of the very ugliest and would be something of an overreaction that would only prevent an occurrence which already has a very low likelihood of happening. Indy type bodywork would be more visually acceptable and would certainly have made Sunday's crash less serious in its outcome, as it would have with numerous others - Webber/Kovalainen and Maldonado/Hamilton, both at Valencia, to name but two.

Anyway, I hope we're not getting too off-topic here.

 

[Kewee]

Chad Stewarthill........its a tough one Chad. I don't really have an answer but I do recognize they need to do something. Racing has changed over the years and I can't see the same level of respect finding its way back into the sport. The only thing I can be sure of is it would have been tragic to see Alonso lifted out of his car and laid on the ground the way Senna was, it could have so easily come to that and all our hearts would have been sickened. We should all be thankful.

 

[Chad Stewarthill]

Amen to that!

 

[Kewee]

Kewee,

So you think receiving a grid penalty for a gearbox failure is fine? As my previous post said, apparently unclearly, how much space do you have to leave when coming out of the pit? The stewards investigate that one all the time and it is always subjective. These are the kinds of interventions by the stewards that I object to. Bone-headed moves by drivers are a different matter entirely.

Although I've responded to this I still can't work out why you directed the comments regarding gearbox failure and pit intervals at me, considering I hadn't made reference to either in any of my postings. Maybe you confused me with someone else's response?

 

[KekeTheKing]

Just because Alonso was in the crash shouldn't alter the punishment handed out.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that it should. I'm saying that it did.

Judging from the FIA's actions following Spa, it would appear that you're allowed to take out certain drivers and walk away relatively unscathed, while others are unquestionably off limits.

 

[Kewee]

Once again some see the opportunity to include, indirectly, Alonso in there disapproval of the FIA ruling at Spa. Some have done so suggesting the severity of the penalty handed down on Grosjean shows favoritism to Alonso. Some have even stated, had it been Alonso that triggered the accident he wouldn't have been treated so severely.
The FIA statement didn't mention Alonso by name, it stated Grosjean took out two championship contenders. YES TWO!!!! Hamilton and Alonso. None of you have been critical of the ruling using Hamilton by name its always Alonso.
The sequence of events and rule infringements is worth considering. First infringement, squeezing Hamilton up to the wall. A penalty for that alone under the revised regulations. Totally ignoring the braking point when the field in front had already slowed for the right-hander, another penalty for dangerous driving, and then of course the carnage that followed when Grosjean became airborne at high speed and took out two of the title contenders. Title contenders or not, a one race ban is deserved based on the danger he caused other drivers.
My last point, the FIA do have the power and the right to protect the championship and that includes protecting championship contenders, in this case Hamilton and Alonso, from less experienced drivers who have yet to learn how to engage their brains when the red lights go out. Some of you might be perfectly happy to see a championship destroyed by reckless second tier drivers that aren't in a position to challenge for the title. I'm not happy about it at all and probably wouldn't bother watching the sport if it was reduced to that. The two drivers I want to see fighting for the title this year ended up parked through someone else's stupidity.

 

[gethinceri]

I admire your post, yet the two drivers I want to see fighting for the title ended 1-3, thus I have not liked it.

 

[Kewee]

I'm not a Kimi fan but very much a Button fan so all was not lost for me.

 

[Westy]

Kewee I used Alonso in my argument as he is toP of the championship now. My argument still stands if you put any of the title favorites in his place. I stated this earlier.

 

[Westy]

KekeTheKing - unfortunately you are correct. It is so upsetting to see my favorite sport blighted by such issues.

 

[Kewee]

Westy......My comment was just a general observation not aimed at any one contributor. Were we differ or disagree is, I believe the FIA and the stewards should protect the leading title contenders which include Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel, Webber, Riakkonen and even Button so they're able to contest the championship right down to the wire fairly on the track without being taken out of the title hunt by the recklessness of less experienced drivers. That doesn't mean wrapping them in cotton wool, just controlling unthinking aggression by those less experienced. It's fair to say, the way Alonso has been driving this season he would have got at least fifteen points on Sunday possibly eighteen so if he loses the title by fourteen points many will consider it was taken from him by Grosjean at Spa. That would leave a sour taste in the mouths of many.

 

[Westy]

Kewee - I understand mate. I just wanted to clarify my post so that I do not get pigeon holed. Thanks for the friendly discussion. I guess we must agree to disagree on this point.

 

[Kewee]

Fair enough Westy.

 

[Wombcat]

I believe the FIA and the stewards should protect the leading title contenders which include Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel, Webber, Riakkonen and even Button

No, they should protect each driver as much as the other. The championshipstandings are irrelevant in this.
In effect you are saying that in the first races everyone should be protected at this level (because everyone is still a title contender), but that during the season this changes and some need more protection than others. That is just wrong imo. Besides that: at what point would this be taken into consideration? When is someone still a title contender?

Safetystandards apply equally for everyone on the track. If Grosjean knocked out two Caterhams and Toro Rossos' his action should be punished the same, because it is equally dangerous.

 

[Kewee]

Wombcat....Maybe you've taken what I said too literally or maybe I wasn't clear enough. Of course the rulings put in place should protect all drivers, the point I was making referred more specifically to the accident at Spa. I'm sure all would agree the field is made up of drivers of varying experience. My belief is experienced drivers at the top level understand their limits and for the most part drive within those limits. Other drivers don't need to be protected from them for this reason. Yes, of course there will, on occasion, be racing incidents that result in one driver taking out another even among the very best but this is rare and highly unlikely the result of total unthinking aggression, as we saw last Sunday. So I go back to Spa. Grosjean has not been racing at the top level long enough to be considered experienced when compared to Alonso, Hamilton or Button and when he flies into the first corner, first squeezing Hamilton and then completely missing his braking point and taking out two of the sports top drivers I stand by what I say. The sports leading drivers who are usually championship contenders deserve to be protected from a second tier driver ploughing through the pack from midfield and taking them out and at the same time putting lives in jeopardy.
Regarding your comment on the lesser teams and drivers, of course they deserve to be protected, and the punishments should be just as severe, I never suggested otherwise, but my comments have referred to a championship battle being ruined by inexperience and mindless aggression and I'm not going to apologize that.

 

[ZakspeedYakspeed]

Kewee... that's racin' ...

Grosjean gets sanctioned for a race... which is not used often... you can be assured that if he pulls out a brain fade start in Singapore or Japan and cars get taken out he will likely get rubbed out for the rest of the season...

I actually felt sorry for LH at the start... he stayed waaaay right out of trouble... trying to sneak through anonymously on the inside after a slow start and gets cored by the Lettuce...