Grand Prix 2012 Belgian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

Doesn't time fly! The summer break is approaching the end and after an astonishing Olympics which gripped a nation, the attention now turns across the Channel to see if another Brit can continue his push for glory. Victory in Hungary saw Lewis Hamilton reignite his stuttering season and closed (however small) the gap to Alonso to just over 40 points. The update package introduced in Germany have thrown McLaren back to the front again and just in time as any longer and Hamilton would have been out of the title battle just like his team-mate has been after a nightmare summer for Button. Hamilton has generally gone well at Spa with 1 win, a third place and a fourth. Although depending on your viewpoint it should be 2 wins and a fourth after the 2008 mess.

Although the true king of Spa has returned to the throne in the Lotus and with wins in 2004,2005,2007 and 2009 (close to winning in 2008 as well) not many would bet against the Iceman taking his first victory of the season at his favourite track. The Lotus has been in good form in recent races and a second and third in Hungary proved that where they pushed Hamilton from lights to flag but couldn't quite get past the McLaren driver.

Belgium is famous for it's 4 seasons in a hour in all different parts of the track weather and no doubt if rain is about that plays into the hands of the Championship leader Alonso as the Ferrari is the quickest car in the wet but possibly only the 4th quickest car in the dry, that was evident at Hungary anyway, whether that translates to Spa it is unknown, however Ferrari have traditionally been quick at Spa having won more times there (16) than anyone else so they/Alonso will be in the mix on race day, well let's face it, Massa won't be.

The big unknown here is Red Bull, having had to make several changes to their car to stop make sure it is legal and it has affected performance in recent races and they weren't in the hunt in Hungary. Indeed, Double World Champion Sebastian Vettel is on the longest winless streak since he joined Red Bull in 2009 having not won since Bahrain in April and the young German is currently a few points behind Mark Webber who has had somewhat of a resurgance this year having won at Monaco and Silverstone to become the leading chase driver in the Championship behind Alonso. No doubt Red Bull will be keen to avoid the infighting that nearly cost them the 2010 Championship and to ensure that they don't fall foul of any more FIA regulations as any more problems could see them slip behind Hamilton and possibly even Raikkonen.

Raikkonen is viewed by many as the dark horse for the Championship. He's only a few points behind Hamilton despite having yet to win a race this season which is a testament to his consistency, something which so nearly got him the 2003 title despite only winning one race all year (Malaysia). He's closed down bigger gaps in the past (2007) so he could play a major part in the Championship and if he doesn't ultimately end up in the mix at the end of the season, he'll certainly play a part in terms of taking points off other drivers as he will want to be in contention for podiums and wins as the first win has eluded him so far. He's certainly having a very successful comeback so far and has shown that the 2 years he's had out hasn't affected him whatsoever.

For Galahad 's circuit write up - http://cliptheapex.com/pages/circuit-de-spa-francorchamps/
 
I was looking for a video of the start in Valencia this year, specifically the Button/Alonso move, I believe flit was similar to the incident this weekend, except JB backed out.
 
Cheers Brogan, I shall watch that when I get home (bloody mobile playing up!)

But from my (admittedly poor) memory, it is very similar, except that Jenson backs out, and loses about 100 places. Not saying either manoeuvre is correct, just that Grosjean is not alone.
 
I believe that if Alonso had caused the incident that there would be absolutely no race ban at all.

And rightly so. Alonso doesn't have a history of careless maneuvering at the start.

I do however believe that if Alonso hadn't been one of the cars taken out at Spa then Grosjean would most definitely be on the grid at Monza. The FIA basically admitted as much with the "title-contender" language in their ruling.
 
The title contender argument isn't a valid one imo. But I think that Grosjeans' ban is justified. He got in too many startaccidents this year. And his move last sunday was just plain stupidity.
 
I guess it's a bit of a case of the boy who cried wolf, but I don't think there is a system of escalating punishments in F1 for repeated incidents either. They introduced the three strikes system with reprimands a year or two ago, but apart from that as fas as the stewards go each race is, or should be, a separate entity I think.

The title contenders statement is a bit out of place, but so are comments about prior incidents linking to the penalty in my opinion. It's easy to draw Maldonado out of the hat as a scape goat, but based on prior incidents he would surely be more deserving of a ban as a result of his Spa exploits than Grosjean if such a system was in place.

I'm starting to sound like a broken record...
 
And rightly so. Alonso doesn't have a history of careless maneuvering at the start.

I do however believe that if Alonso hadn't been one of the cars taken out at Spa then Grosjean would most definitely be on the grid at Monza. The FIA basically admitted as much with the "title-contender" language in their ruling.

But there in lies the problem. Just as Brogan said, penalties handed out subjectively leaves the door wide open for cheating.

And you said it right there "if Alonso hadn't been one of the cars taken out at Spa then Grosjean would most definitely be on the grid at Monza"

Just because Alonso was in the crash shouldn't alter the punishment handed out. It shouldn't take a big name for the rules to change (very different but Senna's death made the change in safety meassures, not Ratzenburger's).

The same goes for the comments made in the Indycar series this weekend about racing differently when championship contenders are in the mix with those without a shot at the title. Why? If we put the title contenders on a higher pedestal than those around them then I see no need for qualifying or racing. Just line them up according to their championship point tally and let them drive around the circuit with no chance of any major upsets.

Rules should not be changed just because you have a shot at the title. Let's look at football for instance. The rules on safety and how teams should play each other do not change just because Man Utd. are battling for the title. Every team will play them just as hard because that's what they SHOULD do.

Grosjean's crash was avoidable and he should be punished for it. However, his punishment should not be increased just because his accident may have had WDC implications down the line. If that is the case then Karthikayen should have been punished for getting in Vettels way in Malaysia (not a banning, but something because he got in the way of a title contender).

The rules must be fair and balanced for all. If they favor, or punish, some more than others then we are in a broken system. We all get angry with the stewards and the FIA when it comes to the controversies on illegal bodywork and call for clarification of these rules. We should be equally outraged when it comes to driver standards and the lack of consistency.
 
But there in lies the problem. Just as Brogan said, penalties handed out subjectively leaves the door wide open for cheating.

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Mate I don't know where you've been but handing out penalties subjectively has always been part of F1's history and always will be as long as the power base continues to be monopolised by certain individuals and teams. You also have scenarios where safety has been compromised for the sake of a good story. That's the reality and unfortunately the choice is - you either turn off or suck it up.
 
If I were to go to our local supermarket and take something out without paying I would be handed over to the police. As a first offender I would probably be given a police caution rather than be prosecuted. For a second offence it would probably be a magistrate's court. If I kept on re-offending the penalty would become more serious each time. Why should this not happen in F1? Grosjean has offended several times, he deserves to be given a penalty which makes him stop and think.

As to whether or not a punishment should to some extent be determined by who is taken out, what would happen on here if the season were to end with Raikonnen winning the WDC by one point from Hamilton? Would everyone be saying oh, that's OK, it's just one of those things? Somehow I doubt it.
 
Really, what has your last paragraph got to do with the discussion?
The severity of he penalty awarded to the offending driver makes no difference to the standings or points scored by the other drivers.
Hamilton will never recover any potential points lost in this race and likewise Raikkonen will never get any more than he did.

It just seems like yet another attempt to create discord where none currently exists.
 
If that happened it would be infuriating, but these things happen, this is racing. It would be better than loosing by one point through FIA/steward incompetent meddling, which nearly happened in 2008 when Hamilton was unfairly deprived of his win, funnily enough at Spa. Crashes happen in motorsport and these crashes affect outcomes of championships..very often, I can live with that. But not with the FIA/stewards deciding who is important enough to warrant dishing out a penalty and who is not. Where does that sort of thinking end? Do they throw a safety car if a championship contender is put in a difficult position/ compromised?If decisions such as those affected a championship I'd be well peeved.
 
I think people need to realise Grosjean has either been brilliant ala Valencia and Bahrain or accident prone and having an incident

Grosjean has done better than Maldonado who seems to be determined to be first one into the stewards book
 
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