Grand Prix 2011 Japanese Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

The championship is still alive!!!!!!!!!!! Okay that may be a bit over optomistic

Despite another crushing win by Vettel in Singapore, Buttons valiant second place ensures that the championship mathematically remains possible for the experienced Britain, but for him to take his second world title he requires Vettel to not finish in all the remain races and Button to win every race and to be honest there is as much chance of me winning the lottery.

Indeed, Button has had a strong 2011 and this would be more highlighted if it wasnt for the sheer dominance of Vettel who has taken a podium in every race apart from Germany. He has outperformed his beleagured team mate Hamilton who is under severe pressure from the media after another incident, this time with Massa who didn't take kindly to it and made his feelings clear after the race.

But at Ferrari they seem to be going through the motions after a great win at Silverstone, Alonso has strong drives without challenging and Massa is regularly in the middle of the points without ever challenging the podium, surely he'll be on the way out soon as he's not performing at a level that Ferrari require him to be if they want to be serious Constructors Champions in the future.

Big news at Mercedes as Aldo Costa and Geoff Willis have joined the team, with the team struggling (in comparison) since their return to the sport in 2010, these two signings might just get them back at the front in the near future and might convince Schumacher to extend his contract, Singapore aside, Schumacher's performances have been a lot better this season and at the very least he has matched Rosberg and perhaps there is still life in the old dog yet and the podium might not be too far away.

Japan has become famous for title deciders with Prost/Senna being the most memorable with the crashes at the final chicane and turn 1 being some of the most controversial in the sport (particularly the latter after a dispute over the start position). The track is regarded as one of the best driver tracks on the calendar, second only to Spa and returned to the calendar in 2009 after Fuji pulled out of F1 due to financial problems after holding the grand prix in 2007 and 2008 where Hamilton and Alonso won respectively.

No doubt the championship will be won in Suzuka but you never know, stranger things have happened in F1, surely the reliability of the Red Bull can't hold out forever, can we hope?

For Galahads superb circuit write up see here http://cliptheapex.com/pages/suzuka-international-racing-course/
 
So if he needed the 4 seconds to the car in front, and that car in front was Jenson, who should have been getting the hurry up???

I would have thought that was Lewis fault had I not seen that message that is still on full view on McLaren.com.
Yup, fair points.
Button in front was very slow.
Can't remember who was in front of him. Alonso was definitely far ahead of Vettel. Don't think there was anyone else on track.

Hamilton appeared distracted on the steering wheel, but he didn't really have anywhere to go; being that close to Button would have given him the track position Webber had - which did him no good.

Not quite sure what Schumacher was planning on doing with those completely grass green tyres if he did make the chequered flag.
 
Well that may well have stuffed thier race. The 5live team reckon the Red Bull has between a 1 and 1.5 seconds over McLaren on the long runs with heavy fuel. Thier best chance is to get ahead of or stay with Vettel on the first three laps. Practice suggests that they may not be able to do that. Hmmpphh!
 
Despite that it may not have made a difference, I'd have Schumacher up on that one. Since when can you cut across the grass to get the jump on so done going into the last lap of qualli? It's Merc's fault that they didn't get him out in time and that is not the way to go about rectifying the team's mistake.
 
Did they clarify Kravitz's point about the first runs being on scrubbed tyres? Seemed very odd

Not sure but given the times I would have thought so. Who are starting on the scrubs, did Webber or Alonso improve? I guess Schumacher can start on fresh tyres now?
 
O dear!

McLaren had a fast enough car to take Pole today at Suzuka.

When people (at places other than CTA, of course ;) ) look back at today and see Vettel and RBR with yet another Pole under their belt they'll stupidly say "O, that's because they have a dominant car!"

Well they may have had a dominant qualifying car at most of the races in 2011...but they certainly didn't today!

Mclarens should have been on Pole! End of!

:spank:

It was yet another cock-up for Lewis' Q3 effort. Monaco. Singapore. Japan.

And yet again, Vettel's perfect when he needs to be and has an endless supply of Vintage 2011 Horseshoes coming out of his arse!

It's very, very clear that Button's ultimate pace isn't a match for Hamilton (or Vettel) but it's also very clear that when it comes to the McLaren-Hamilton axis in 2011, they do seem to be putting in sub-optimal performances vis-a-vis their potential.

Shall I suggest the following...(?)

Had Vettel been driving that McLaren at Suzuka, a McLaren MP4-26 would have been on Pole.

Hopefully they can fulfill the promise of that car and win the Grand Prix tomorrow. Right now i'd just like to see them winning and I, frankly, don't car which driver takes the win.

It's gutting to see them rolling out the red carpet for a formidable enough foe like Vettel and his RB7-Renault.
 
Why has nobody mentioned the fact that if Hamilton was cutting it fine, what on earth were Schumacher and Webber doing behind him?
And why is it then Hamilton's fault that they, belatedly realising their errors, conspire to mess his chances up as well as their own by sandwiching him at the final chicane? As Keke said, Button was still exiting the chicane as Lewis approached it, so he couldn't have arrived their much earlier.

The only saving grace is that Lewis at least had done a good enough first run to keep third place, and will be on the better side of the grid. All is not lost for him, and both Mclarens look like they can at least make a race of it against Seb.
 
I think Schumie did it in frustration if anything. I don't think he messed anyone's lap up but his own - it was Webber Lewis had to slow down for.

As for 'Lewis looking distracted on the steering wheel' thing coming from Eddie Jordan - what a load of bull. Its called setting the car up for his quali lap - I bet if you looked at in car footage of all the other drivers at that point they'd be doing the same thing. No point getting to the line for your quali lap if your car's only set up for a warm up lap.

Mclaren did not make themselves look good today.
 
Before we all decide to blame Jenson here I'd like to see if he was told he needed to get a shift on to let Lewis get a lap. Lets remember he shifted out the way a few races ago for Lewis, messing his own quali up, so lets not go pointing fingers too quick

This isn't Hungary 2007
 
Unless of course he was trying to clear a gap to his teammate while getting attacked from both sides in the chicane, ultimately failing to cross the timing line in time for a final run.

Yes, but Keke why is it always Hamilton with the Q3 issues?

You honestly think Vettel's prep and approach for Q3 would be that out to lunch?

The pundits are saying Vettel's an intelligent yougster. If so, you think he'd be cutting it that fine?
 
yet another cock-up for Lewis' Q3 effort. Monaco. Singapore. Japan.
Had Vettel been driving that McLaren at Suzuka, a McLaren MP4-26 would have been on Pole.

Shall I suggest the following?

Had Hamilton or Jenson been driving a Red Bull and sent out at the front of the pack they would have been on pole.

Unfortunately for the McLaren drivers, the Red Bull looks significantly faster in race trim. Barring a mistake from Red Bull or Vettel, I think it's safe to say we'll be seeing that horrid finger tomorrow.
 
So Whitmarsh claims they were telling Lewis not to back up the pack despite being told unless he had 4 second gap to the car in front it would compromise his lap. The car in front at less than 4 seconds was none other than another McLaren. I fail to see how this was Hamilton's fault, he had no control over when Button was sent out and his then speed on the outlap.

For the avoidance of doubt (bottom to top)

bg4spu.jpg


Button should have beaten Vettel. Hamilton would have beaten Vettel (barring no mistakes). This was a complete farce from McLaren.

"As team principal you aren’t exclusively responsible for everything, for success or failure, but you are were the buck stops." Ron Dennis
 
Did we just see Jenson deliberately screw his teammate and Whitmarsh praise him for it?

I'd sincerely hope that wasn't the plan. I would have thought Button was doing the same thing as Lewis, finding some track space and making sure the car was in the right modes. McLaren really should have sent the cars out a few seconds earlier but the drivers have to take responsibility for making sure they drive round fast enough and not get mugged at the last corner.
 
Before we all decide to blame Jenson here I'd like to see if he was told he needed to get a shift on to let Lewis get a lap.

This isn't Hungary 2008
Massa was somewhere around in front of him too, though we didn't see him on the video.

The 2 messages on the McLaren site only spoke of the gap to Massa, and Lewis being behind, though there may have been others we missed (i.e. none to Ham are listed).

Pit » HAM: "We've missed the chance, Lewis. We've taken the chequered flag. Box this lap, save the tyres."
41 minutes ago


Pit » BUT: "Let's make the gap to Massa."
43 minutes ago



Pit » BUT: "Lewis is the car behind, Massa is the car in front."
46 minutes ago
 
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