Current McLaren

Arguably one of the big teams in Formula One but lately they don't seem to be able to get the basics right.
Some of their strategy and decisions in the last few years has left more than a few observers scratching their heads.

Just a few for starters:
  • Leaving Kimi out on a badly flat-spotted tyre, resulting in it exploding on the last lap.
  • Leaving Hamilton out on tyres so badly worn they were down to the canvas; Bridgestone themselves demanded that McLaren bring him in and McLaren refused, keeping him out for a few more laps. That decision arguably cost Hamilton the first rookie WDC and is one which will haunt him and McLaren for the rest of their days.
  • Not sending Button and Hamilton out to get banker laps in during Q1.
  • Sending Hamilton out on used tyres in Q3, with rain forecast, meaning it would be impossible to set a fast lap time on his second attempt on new tyres.
Their major updates seem to send them further down the grid, instead of challenging for pole positions and wins. As the season progresses they tend to get worse before getting better, by which time it is generally too late.

It's often said of them "write them off at your peril", but is this necessarily true?

The last time they won the WCC was in 1998 and their last WDC was 2008, before that 1999.
Their days of regularly winning championships seem to be well and truly behind them.

It's all well and good coming up with reasons why they haven't won championships.
The fact remains though, they have won just one WDC in the last 12 years.

So where to now for McLaren?

(I wrote this in rather a hurry so I will flesh it out when I have more time.)
 
Click to expand
Another statistic RasputinLives, we all know Ferrari have won the most constructors championships but how many realise Williams are second with nine followed by McLaren on eight. Williams are a shadow of their former greatness but I wouldn't bet against them in the future. They just need the right designer, there's plenty of passion within the team. Even the great Ferrari went from 1983 to 1999 without a title, 16 years.
 
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Even between 1983 to 1999 Ferrari were never short of cash and their survival was never in doubt.

That in itself makes any comparison somewhat misplaced.
 
Kewee I didn't say optimism was a bad thing. I'm sure at some point Mclaren will rise to the top again just as the F1 wheel has always turned it will again. However getting back to the front after last year? I think that will be a stretch. Back end of top ten and sneeking a better result on a mixed up day maybe.

As for your thoughts on the 2014 Ferrari - you Don't recall saying it was going to be a Rory Byrne machine and would be up there with the best? I like to think your employed to keep Alonso motivated. Again not a criticism.
 
Kewee

My problem with Honda's attitude right now is that they think they have the best engineers within their own team and so far clearly that is not the case

I don't share Arai-san's optimism. Were Honda to seriously screw up this time then I am sure either Mclaren driver or both will consider quitting.

I don't feel Honda have learned their lessons from their disastrous venture in 2000's as an F1 team where they seem to trying to run everything from Japan. Button was frustrated and lobbied for Honda to get Ross Brawn because the decisions made by the management was muddled and too slow to respond to the pace of F1.

The 2007 and 2008 Honda's were absolute dogs because part of it was the engine submitted for the engine freeze was down on power - 60bhp at least.

Also given the lack of opportunities to test and tokens available to test new parts... it is seriously a lot to ask of Honda to make up the engine gap when there is no comparison to another team
 
Incubus said:
Even between 1983 to 1999 Ferrari were never short of cash and their survival was never in doubt.

That in itself makes any comparison somewhat misplaced.
Click to expand
I don't think my comparison was misplaced, what I was pointing out was any great team can go through long unsuccessful periods. It was a general comment not a direct comparison between McLaren and Ferrari.
 
RasputinLives said:
Kewee I didn't say optimism was a bad thing. I'm sure at some point Mclaren will rise to the top again just as the F1 wheel has always turned it will again. However getting back to the front after last year? I think that will be a stretch. Back end of top ten and sneeking a better result on a mixed up day maybe.

As for your thoughts on the 2014 Ferrari - you Don't recall saying it was going to be a Rory Byrne machine and would be up there with the best? I like to think your employed to keep Alonso motivated. Again not a criticism.
Click to expand
I remember the posting your referring to Ras. I think you'll find I wasn't stating an opinion but quoting Rory Byrne directly. I still believe they will be much better than the back end of top ten this season.
 
Il_leone ..... I understand what your suggesting and Honda did come undone by trying to run their team with a committee in Japan, but there is a difference now, Honda aren't running the team McLaren are. Honda are supplying the engines and there's nowhere better to undertake their development work that at their own factory in Japan.
 
True FB but their design philosophy has worked well for them in every class of motorsport they've ever been involved in, whether it be raced on two wheels or four. As long as they keep their noses out of team management they will make progress.
 
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Kewee Last time Honda produced a decent engine was 2004 before they took over BAR.

I have no faith in Honda run by Mr Arai who publicly refused to apologise for the poor performance of the Honda engines when it is plain to see

Senna back in the Mclaren days pushed them real hard to get them to produce a powerful engine relentlessly until they were no longer up to it so he wanted to move

If Mr Arai can prove Honda have made a lot of ground then its some herculean effort
 
Kewee said:
I think your comment must be restricted to F1 only. Your overlooking their achievements on two wheels and their successes in the US in IRL especially.
Click to expand

Honda in the IRL is essentially a different animal to Honda in F1.

Honda's IRL engine is produced by the US subsidiary, whilst the F1 engine is produced by the Japanese team; there are very different cultures!
 
Kewee said:
Another statistic RasputinLives, we all know Ferrari have won the most constructors championships but how many realise Williams are second with nine followed by McLaren on eight. Williams are a shadow of their former greatness but I wouldn't bet against them in the future. They just need the right designer, there's plenty of passion within the team. Even the great Ferrari went from 1983 to 1999 without a title, 16 years.
Click to expand

SO this means Mclaren has overtaken Ferrari with 17 years without a title ...
 
The Artist..... Yes, IRL is obviously very different to F1 and the culture within the US subsidiary is very different, but anything with the Honda name from bikes to cars benefit from development work in Japan. I still believe most people expected Honda to become competitive far too soon and I still believe they will make massive gains in 2016.
 
Kewee said:
I still believe most people expected Honda to become competitive far too soon
Click to expand

It was you who said they'd be on the podium by Silverstone.
I don't think being better than 9th in the Championship and general pace order is an unrealistic expectation for a team who were crying blue murder because they dropped championships three years hence.
 
HOnda and Mclaren were both complacent about last year

Ron to Honda " We would like to revive our partnership and we will make both names legendary again"

Honda to Ron " Hai ! "

Ron to Honda " Can you design a powerful turbo engine?"

Honda to Ron " Hai and leave it to us and we will do the rest "

( I think they took engine from 1988 out of the archive storage which has not fired up in nearly 30 years )
 
teabagyokel said:
It was you who said they'd be on the podium by Silverstone.
I don't think being better than 9th in the Championship and general pace order is an unrealistic expectation for a team who were crying blue murder because they dropped championships three years hence.
Click to expand
I did. I was expecting them to be far more competitive than they were by the end of the season so I was one who was also expecting too much. I do expect a much better result this season.
 

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