F1 rule change 2017

I have to admit I find Karun's description of the aero changes being 'massive' is a slight exaggeration. Maybe to an aero engineer but I think a casual view would be hard-pressed to spot the difference, apart from maybe the raked rear wing uprights.
 
The concepts and the ultimate goal are testament to just how totally inept and up its own arse F1 is.

I am now totally convinced that the most important thing in F1 car design is the appearance and angles of wings and barge boards. I am also convinced that what I am ultimately fed up with in F1 is the boxy appearance of 2015 cars and just how slow they are.

Viva F1! :cheers:
 
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I don't think the wider cars are going to help overtaking too much either. Tracks like Hungary are already pretty narrow. It would be better if cars were smaller rather than larger?
I just wish the regs could be opened up a hell of a lot more. The regs define almost exactly what a car looks like now and any aero advantages around the template are almost unnoticeable, yet probably just as expensive as if the designers had much freer rein. The problem of course with looser regs is if one team gets it spot-on and the others aren't allowed to adapt, and of course that should be catered for, including more testing.
It bugs me that the cars do not look the way they are through evolution, but almost entirely through regulation.
 
Wider cars, wider tyres and larger diffuser area are all things that will increase mechanical grip and allow cars to follow closer in the corners. This is good.

Where they have totally failed, is in their refusal to simplify the front wing to make it even easier to follow close through the corners.

I also can't believe there was no mention of engine power. F1 used to have 1500 BHP in qualifying. Now we have 800. Progress. No.
 
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Smaller, simpler wings and no rev limit. Steel brakes might help as well with overtaking. And ultra hard tyres, no marbles.

It is particularly annoying since what you suggest is far more likely to work and is significantly cheaper to implement.
 
What I really want to know is why they suddenly turned the problems with noise and overtaking into a fixation with increasing lap time? :givemestrength: Lap time goes up by up to two seconds a year without any legislation. And the FIA has spent the last 5 decades tirelessly trying to keep a lid on lap times in the interests of safety. Quicker lap times will not help overtaking in the slightest. It will make it far more difficult and dangerous, accidents will be far more dangerous, tyre failures will be far more dangerous... what am I complaining about? ... kill the freaking lot of 'em! :facepalm:
 
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Manual gearboxes for me because simply you can't miss a gear with a semi automatic gearbox these days unless it packs up so driver error comes into it if you have a manual one

I guess that would be physically challenging for the drivers because F1 cars these days are much more like playing a video game.
 
Based off of that Sky Sports video with Ted Kravitz and Karun that virtual car looks damn good... but I don't think it will make the racing any better if that's what they wanted.
 
It looks like the work of a comity.

I can actually trace their thinking: First bright idea, "why don't we angle the front wing, thus > ?" Response: "That's a brilliant idea! We could also angle the barge boards." While we're at it we could angle the rear wing end-plates, this is fantastic! ... I've seen this car before... wasn't it in that film with Silvester Stalone?" "Yeah that's right but the rear wing was much lower and didn't it have a floor that angled upwards toward the rear and weren't the sidepods angled too?" "This is a remarkably brilliant concept car we have here, eat your hearts out Fomula E!"

"eh hem! :embarrassed: Will it be safe? ...To drive I mean."
:spank: "Don't be a freakin' idiot of course its safe."
"But didn't we make the sidepods bigger and squarer so that in the event of a side impact the driver stands a good chance of surviving and may even walk again? "
"Don't be an idiot, just how many times has that happened? This isn't a bloody cart racing! :clip:
 
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Manual gears puts the emphasis back on drivers ... I wonder how many young drivers could hack it with needing to make so man y gear changes
 
Good grief, what is it with open season on young people?! Young people are constantly being told they can't do :censored: because they're young. Enough already! :clip:I'd be more concerned about old people not being able to do it - old people are more prone to repetitive strain injuries and have longer recovery times!
 
Yeah I don't know if any of these guys, regardless of age, would be able to cope with manual gears. If so, it would all be down to talent not age. Even the elder statesmen Alonso and Button started well after the demise of the manual gearbox.
 
Manual gearboxes... WGAF?!

When one car is behind and quicker, has a simple front wing and the circuit is designed with overtaking opportunities in mind, missed gear changes are irrelevant. In fact I would go as far as to say that missed gearshit overtaking is as entertaining as DRS!
 
I am following this thread with interest, and one common statement is about making the cars faster. I think everyone may have missed something significant to do with the speed of the cars around the tracks.

Look at the Q1 times of the cars at the GP 2 weeks ago. You will note that Button was within a hairs breadth of his pole time from 3 years ago, and he couldn't even make it out of Q1, let alone get into the top 10. Now would someone tell me why they believe the cars this year and last are slower than their predecessors?

I agree that they may be concentrating on the wrong things in the regulations though. The problem is that it is obvious from this thread that about 50% of the people will be disappointed with the outcome. The call is either for the cars to go faster, the cars to be easier to overtake by reducing aero reliance or both at the same time. The issue is that just adding more power is not going to make the cars faster, as most of the time lost at present is through the corners and not down the straights, so yes, you will get a faster car in a straight line, but you need more grip in the corners to make that work in terms of a lap time.

Also, making the cars easier to overtake means a reduction in the reliance on the aero components. This make the car slower in the corners and means less power being applied coming out of corners unless you can massively increase the mechanical grip. It is in no way possible to replace the lost aero being relied upon with mechanical grip if you are trying to remove the dirty air issue you have these days, at least not without the addition of things like active suspension, ground effects, traction/launch control, ABS or other technical wizardry that is currently against the rules.But allowing all these things back into play within the cars design removes the skill level required by the driver (assuming it all works as it should). So you end up with processional races with position determined by the engine power and not the driver skill (or at least the balance of requirements tips a long way in that direction).

Should the manufacturers be allowed to produce engines with more power? Of course they should. Merc have already demonstrated on their test beds they can give up to 1000bhp from their existing engine with the same reliability just by changing the fuel flow allowed.

So the next question is how do we let the teams apply that power to the road? To me the answer is simple, it is not more regulation it is less. Simplify the restrictions placed on the teams with regards to angles, wing sizes and a whole host of other things. Lets let the designers design and come up with new and wonderful ideas like they used to in the past. Stop the slow progression towards all the cars being the same other than the engine and lets go back to the good old days when people may have had crackpot ideas that didn't work, but at least they were doing something inside the rules that was different to try and beat the other teams.

In short, change the rules to tempt people like Adrian Newey back into F1 with the promise that he gets to be creative in the way he designs things, and that every idea he has is not going to get banned at the first opportunity. Also let the engine designers do the same within a set amount of fuel for a race and limit on power output. If Merc can give you 1000bhp with using half the fuel of a Ferrari engine then why not let them?
 
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Should the manufacturers be allowed to produce engines with more power? Of course they should. Merc have already demonstrated on their test beds they can give up to 1000bhp from their existing engine with the same reliability just by changing the fuel flow allowed.

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I think this is a very good example of the eye-catching, headline-grabbing and purely cosmetic statements people like the F1 strategy group occasionally come up with.
It's died down a bit now but last year and the year before that we were constantly told of the benefit the return of of 1,000 + hp engines would bring to F1 and there was loads of press coverage about it, as if it were the be-all end-all, with lots of public discussions on how to go about it.

That fact that F1 engines were already not far off that figure anyway and that we'd probably get to 1,000 hp pretty soon seems to have been somewhat overlooked. The Merc in its current configuration is already said to produce somewhere around 950 hp as it is.
 
I worry that if there is less regulation as many want that we would have every single season with a single team 5 seconds a lap faster than the rest. Despite recent form from Redbull and then the Mercs, F1 does have some close seasons. Open up the regs and close seasons would be a thing of the past.

Still it is a totally pointless argument as open regs will never happen. Not ever.
 
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