Grand Prix 2011 Canadian Grand Prix Practice, Qualifying & Race Discussion

O Canada!
Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.

With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!

From far and wide,
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

God keep our land glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

Thought this might be useful if you wanted to sing along to the Canadian National Anthem before the start of the race.

Anyway, on to the Grand Prix, after all that’s what we’re here for. Last year Bridgestone provided tyres, which didn’t like the surface at the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve too much, and the powers that be in F1 thought “ah, ha here’s an idea to spice up the racing. Why don’t we ask those blokes at Pirelli if they can make sets of boots for F1 cars that fall apart on the warm up lap”, and they did.

In 2010 Hamilton put his car on pole (you may recall him pushing his car back to the pits, so light was it on fuel) and then went on to win an exciting race with teammate Jenson Button standing on the 2nd step.

So what for Canada 2011? Red Bull, at least car No.1, has been a tad difficult to beat but McLaren and Ferrari are getting closer during the race. With 5 wins out of 6 races Vettel has a healthy lead in the Championship and some bookmakers are already paying out on the title being his. Vettel was 3rd on the grid last year, behind teammate Webber, and finished 4th with unspecified gearbox problems, still ahead of Webber who had led for many laps but got caught out by the high tyre wear rate.

Fernando Alonso was 3rd last time out in Canada after getting mugged by a hard charging Jenson Button. Mercedes had a mixed race, Rosberg was “best of the rest” behind the McLaren’s, Alonso’s Ferrari and the Red Bull’s whilst Michael Schumacher treated the race like a destruction derby, straight lining chicanes and bouncing off other cars with gay abandon. What of Felipe Massa I hear you ask; well, he was one of Schumacher’s victims and lost time pitting for a new nose cone.

This is very nearly the last Hurrah for the exhaust blown diffuser and we have two, yes 2, DRS zones. So expect cars breezing past another before and after the pits, when they’re not in their getting new tyres of course.

Will it be another Red Bull walk over or can the McLaren’s and Ferrari’s tame the charging Bull? How will the Pirelli tyres hold up dusty and bumpy Ille Notre-Dame Circuit? Will it rain? Who will win? Can one of the minor teams struggle up into the points? I don’t know but I get the feeling there will be lots of speculation.

And we have our own track side reporter this year - take a bow Ray in Toronto and make sure you post some good photos

For Galahad’s excellent circuit write up, track history and all the stats a boy or girl could want click here http://cliptheapex.com/pages/circuit-gilles-villeneuve/
 
I just look at the line of the Mercedes Petronas....Alonso is on the same line, the race line and Button can only slam brakes to make cutting the other apex.....that is 'causing an avoidable accident...he also cliped the Ferrari from behind so he had no position out on the wet despite having a head to head in the build up.

I can't comment from an FIA point of view because i don't agree with the current rules at all, but from my point of view this is just two drivers driving extremely close to each other in a corner, the fact that they touched was a result of it. Neither driver left their line, neither driver "turned in" on the other. It was just a racing incident. It was very similar in my opinion to Lewis-Webber. Two drivers ran close to each into a tight corner and contact was a result of it.
 
I would leave it at 50-50, you can easily argue it both ways, F1 mirrors are useless enough as it is, even before rain. Yes Hamilton could have backed off, but that's not in his nature and what makes him a brilliant and frustrating driver.

Schumis seemed to be fine when he was defending. And I think 20 secs for Button soz mate but schumi would be 3rd :)
 
Where did I patronise you? I replied to your post and added a little bit of humour, but it does seem like you may have had a bypass, so take it how you want..

:rolleyes:

You should concentrate on debating the points rather than resort to personal arguments. I have not insulted you and I fail to see how a pointless analogy about living with a woman fits in the argument or helps my understanding. Button may have been trying to take the heat out of the situation but I'm sure he realises there's a strong argument for his culpability.
 
To compound Hamiltons bad luck, his suspension wasn't damaged in the crash and with a new tyre and front wing his car would have been right as rain.

Looking at where that would have left Lewis, he could've gone on to win the race with Mclaren's pace today.
 
Great win for Button, I really don't see where he came from. His pace was great but I think the McLaren guys must have just got their strategy (and setup) perfect because it seems to me that he must have made up about 10 places during pit stops. Anyway, credit where credit's due - Button's race after the Alonso incident was stunning.

Now that's the positive stuff I'm afraid, being a Hamilton fan, I can't help but be frustrated after the race for many reasons. Excuse my rant but I'm going to list a few:
  • I would have liked to see Schumacher on the podium.
  • Had luck gone Hamilton's way he could have won the last three races.
  • The use of the Safety car was ridiculous. When it was deployed due to the wet track it stayed out until it was dry enough to race on intermediates, the start shouldn't have been under the safety car and even after accidents it seemed to stay out for a few more laps after the accident had been cleared. Sort it out!!!
  • I don't want Button to get penalised for the Hamilton or Alonso incidents, and my gut feeling is that he won't, but I can't help but feel that if Hamilton was in Button's car for both those incidents the stewards would be dishing out a penalty. Similarly if it was Hamilton who shoved Schumacher on to the grass at the beginning of the race and not the other way round I think he would have got a penalty.
  • Although it undoubtedly set up the dramatic ending to the race today the DRS made overtaking far too easy and cut short the Schumacher/Webber/Button battle. The DRS should allow the drivers to get the front wing of the car behind in line with the rear tyres of the car in front and no more IMO, so just being able to drive straight past is too much.
Sorry, I just had to let off some steam :givemestrength:.
 
Schumis seemed to be fine when he was defending. And I think 20 secs for Button soz mate but schumi would be 3rd :)

I think it will be another sad day for steward intervention if they do, but i can't see how they can't penalise him without it being completely inconsistent. Especially when that was such a hot topic two weeks ago.
 
I don't get why being ahead into a corner allows you to run into another driver? Surely if you go into a corner on the inside you have to stay to the inside, and outside the same, or a crash is inevitable. I personally think it was just a racing incident, due to the speed carried by both through the corner. People solution to crashes seems to be, just let the other driver stay in front.
By being in front, I meant that (in my opinion) Button had the corner and so Alonso should have ceded and given him room. Turning in when Button was fully alongside was only ever going to end one way.

Another point on investigations and penalties; are they not just going too far these days? The Hamilton / Webber one was a racing incident, as was the Button / Hamilton one. Does every single contact between drivers need an investigation?
But surely the stupidest stewarding decision of the day was to penalise Paul di Resta for an admittedly half-hearted move on Heidfeld at the final chicane; yet another racing incident in which Heidfeld was not unduly affected, di Resta was the one who lost out, having to pit for a new nose cone... and then he was given a drive-through penalty for good measure. Why?!
:givemestrength:
 
I think the first thing F1 needs to do is admit there is a massive problem with the clarity of rules. Every incident seems to have two equally compelling sides. Also, for incidences where drivers are just trying to race, i think it is sad the stewards feel the need to punish someone for this, usually the person overtaking.

Agree. It seems to me that unless it is clearly deliberate (the last deliberate accident I remember is Schumacher turning into Villeneuve) then there should be punishment. In all other incidences it should be a racing incident with no blame. Policing people's judgements is the business of the team owners.
 
I can't comment from an FIA point of view because i don't agree with the current rules at all, but from my point of view this is just two drivers driving extremely close to each other in a corner, the fact that they touched was a result of it. Neither driver left their line, neither driver "turned in" on the other. It was just a racing incident. It was very similar in my opinion to Lewis-Webber. Two drivers ran close to each into a tight corner and contact was a result of it.

The only saving grace is the wet....but the fact that button had to slow that much to make the apex and not even have the car in the right direction after the making the inside apex to me shows he tried to out brake in a pretty quick point of the track.....sorry that in dry conditions is causing an accident.

I remember you made the "FIA rules anti racing"...perhaps...but rules are rules whether you like them or not.
 
  • I don't want Button to get penalised for the Hamilton or Alonso incidents, and my gut feeling is that he won't, but I can't help but feel that if Hamilton was in Button's car for both those incidents the stewards would be dishing out a penalty. Similarly if it was Hamilton who shoved Schumacher on to the grass at the beginning of the race and not the other way round I think he would have got a penalty.
I don't think anyone would disagree with that so this is great test of FIA consistency. I don't want the FIA to get involved, but we can pick out several identical incidences that have happened to Lewis. The thing is i think Lewis has always been harshly treated. I'd be surprised if people genuinely disagree with it, but i don't think it is a conspiracy, i just think that no one in F1 likes his aggression, other than the fans. I remember people telling him to cool it in year 1.
 
The only saving grace is the wet....but the fact that button had to slow that much to make the apex and not even have the car in the right direction after the making the inside apex to me shows he tried to out brake in a pretty quick point of the track.....sorry that in dry conditions is causing an accident.

I remember you made the "FIA rules anti racing"...perhaps...but rules are rules whether you like them or not.

Yep i completely agree. As i said above, i can't comment from the FIA point of view because i think the a bunch of [fill in blank], but my view will always be that F1 drivers should give each other enough space to race, and as long as they attempt this then everything else is just a incident of the racing.
 
By being in front, I meant that (in my opinion) Button had the corner and so Alonso should have ceded and given him room. Turning in when Button was fully alongside was only ever going to end one way.

Hmmm off the racing line....he hit Alonso from behind how could he be ahead...if he didn't over brake he was only going into the grass the other side....The Merc and Ferrari had the race line hence why they didn't have to over brake to make the corner...Causing and accident.
 
Rain races are always nothinng short of a gamble but he copes best wins. Schumi had a DRS as well just didn't seem to be in the place at the right timed to use it. At the end of the day his car wasn't fast enough to keep in touch with those who passed him otherwise he would have been able to use his DRS in response. I don't like DRS, I despise it but as I say a wet race is a lottery and timid race direction really doesn't help.

It was a great race don't get me wrong, but I am always left with mixed feeliings...and people may say we were robbed in Monaco...I fear that we are getting robbed this whole season. - Fenderman and Slyboogys post combined
 
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